Flourish Forum

Tutorials => Kind Critique => Topic started by: Andy.G on February 14, 2019, 12:09:55 PM

Title: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: Andy.G on February 14, 2019, 12:09:55 PM
I like the idea of this thread.

Looking at other peoples "tries" is intimidating and makes me not want to submit, but you can't learn without constructive critique-ness am-a-rite?

This is my first "Piece" that I wrote for my wife for our "first-time-we-met-versary". I want to redo it, but this time on A3 sized paper, as you can clearly see mu awful attempt at connecting the T's, there's plenty of mistakes and I had to squash in a couple of rows.

This is only after 3-4 weeks practice so don't be too harsh, but please be kind-a-harsh and Critique away.

Am eager to learn how to get this Copperplate Calligraphy thing down!

Have a great day all

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7903/47094752151_e1e38e7847_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eKAV4n)#3 (https://flic.kr/p/2eKAV4n) by Andy GS (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7844/47094751461_b61bbd7274_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eKAURt)#2 (https://flic.kr/p/2eKAURt) by Andy GS (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7846/47094750121_ef1f97bab4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2eKAUsn)#1 (https://flic.kr/p/2eKAUsn) by Andy GS (https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/), on Flickr
 
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: Erica McPhee on February 14, 2019, 12:46:45 PM
Hi @Andy.g
What a romantic! I would love to take a look but I can't see the images. Did you attach them as JPGs? I was having some glitches on the server over the past couple days so maybe try again?  ;D
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: Andy.G on February 14, 2019, 01:14:28 PM
@Linda Y. - I have no idea if you are still on this Forum, however you're instructions for uploading images from Flickr helped me a lot. So thank you. Never used the site before.

I have re-uploaded the pictures in the correct format
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: Linda Y. on February 14, 2019, 01:36:26 PM
Glad to be helpful! I am still here once in a while :)
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: matteherr on February 14, 2019, 04:40:57 PM
Not bad Andy. What helps me is slant lines closer together, examples from the past on how spacing should be between letters, and how individual letters look by themselves and also when they are joined to other letters in a word. I want you to put the date on those letters. Put them away. Practice. Then, try the exact same thing in one week, one month. Compare it to your first one. It's a huge confidence builder to see your own growth.
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: Andy.G on February 14, 2019, 05:31:31 PM
@matteherr - that's a great idea thank you. I will do just that. I do struggle writing smaller for some reason. I don't know if it's the size of my hands or what, but I have a hard time writing with a 6mm X height. I think it may be because, even though I think I am pressing ever so softly, my shades are quite thick, so I must still be pressing too hard.
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: matteherr on February 14, 2019, 06:57:03 PM
Ive been learning the same style as you for about three years now. It was literally last week when someone else on this forum suggested a different nib that I saw improvement. I'm not saying that's what you need yet, but rather keep practicing and pay close attention to good examples. What have you used to learn, old books, videos, mentor?
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: Andy.G on February 14, 2019, 08:49:35 PM
I have always learnt by visual, so I watched LoveLeigh Loops series on YT about calligraphy fundamentals, upper and lower case letters and how to join them all, and went from there. I am aiming for approx. 1 hour of practicing a day, which has been a little hit and miss so far, but I will get there. I have tried a couple of the nibs that came with the Manuscript that I have, and so far one gives a much larger shade over the other. Maybe I should be using the one that gives a smaller shade regardless of how hard I press? But I would like to learn to control the pressure etc.

3 years sounds like a good amount of time. Was there a moment when you realised "I can actually do this"?
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: Erica McPhee on February 15, 2019, 09:48:16 AM
Hooray! So glad you were able to get it to work.

Andy has given you great advice. You can tell you have been practicing regularly. There are a few things you can do to improve your lettering.
1. Use preprinted guidelines. You are drawing your own guidelines which is a great practice to get into. However, it is very difficult to get guidelines that are evenly spaced and the same x-height every time. If you use preprinted guidelines (even to mark the page to then draw the guidelines), you will get more even spacing and letter height.

2. Use a different exemplar. Loveleigh Loops is a nice starting point but in to order really improve, you need a stellar exemplar.

My favorite is Zaner's which I have attached.

3. Slow down. In some places, you are writing, not drawing the letters. Remember the letters are made by individual strokes.

4. Not all ascender letters will reach the top of the guideline. The d and t are smaller than the l, k, and h. See Zaner's exemplar.

5. Try Salman's tutorials   (https://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?board=45.0). They are terrific!

Lastly, try not to get discouraged. You have a really beautiful hand developing here and you are going to be really good!  ;D
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: matteherr on February 15, 2019, 11:59:18 AM
Andy, great question! I NEVER doubted if I could learn. I believed I could from day one and just learned and practiced until I get it right. Some people learn in one year, some take a lifetime. I guess it depends on how badly you want it. I've probably spent more time studying the letter forms and history of the script than writing, but that's just how my mind works. I have to understand it before I can do it. Like an artist, I have to "see" it in my mind before I can create it on paper.
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: RD5 on February 15, 2019, 01:29:24 PM
I think you need to work on your layout. Some lines look cramped and you have too small margins on the side.
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: Andy.G on February 17, 2019, 10:10:32 PM
@Erica McPhee - Thank you so much for the critiques, I Will most definitely work on these. And thank you for the Exemplars, they look incredible. I am going to relearn both sets of minuscules and majuscules from the example you have attached. Salman's tutorials look brilliant too.... thank you again! I Will get to practicing :)

Thank you to everyone that has critiqued so far, you've been great.
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: Andy.G on February 17, 2019, 10:16:19 PM
@matteherr - What you say is correct. I learn from repetition so I am confident I can learn, but I often feel my want to be this incredible Peman outweighs my desire to practice because I Am just not there... that's called impatience haha  But you bring up a good point, it does depend on how much we want it. The History of calligraphy seems to be a very interesting thing though I haven't overly looked into it too much. Maybe one day when I want to use a quill  ;D Thanks for your replies, very informative.
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: RD5 on February 18, 2019, 06:00:31 AM
I noticed a couple of things that don't have to do with lettering.

1. Why does it start with and? Is this an excerpt of something? Unless and connects what you are writing to an important idea, I would start with we. Then the emphasis will be on we, and you can start with a fancy W.

2. You forgot to capitalise i in  I'll in the 4th line.

3. I suggest you break up the line one and line four into 2 lines each.

4. You have no punctuation.

5. If this is a quotation, you should cite it.
Title: Re: Have At It! First Attempt!
Post by: Andy.G on February 18, 2019, 10:39:17 AM
@RD5 - Hi RD5, thank you for taking the time to write out the below I do appreciate it. I apologies if my original request wasn't clear, the format and content of the piece aren't nearly as important as the flow and development of the strokes etc. That is where I am hoping to be critiqued by those that can, so thank you.

What's written is a line of the song my wife and I danced to at our wedding, and she just wanted one of the chorus' from the song. She provided the material and I copied it as it was, the words and formatting that is :)

I agree with everything you have said though. you're critique in point 2, after reading this forum, I have come to understand this to be "Calligraphy Brain" ;D

Thanks again, I will repost and hope to see further critiques