Author Topic: bleeding envelopes  (Read 10218 times)

Offline patweecia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 630
  • Karma: 13
    • View Profile
    • Patty Paperie
bleeding envelopes
« on: December 02, 2013, 01:21:08 AM »
hi!

i tried writing on envelopes, but the ink just kept on bleeding. can anybody tell me why this happens? these are sample envelopes i got from a wedding invitation supplier (so these are not the normal type of envelopes which are very thin). but no matter how light i wrote, the ink just kept on bleeding on the paper. was this because of my ink or the paper? is there any trick that would prevent the bleeding? the nib didn't snag or jump; it actually wrote smoothly. the only problem was then a few seconds after i wrote on the paper, the ink would start to spread out :(

please help.

thanks!
patricia
instagram    |   blog    |   facebook

Offline Linda Y.

  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1265
  • Karma: 87
  • Calligra-ninja
    • View Profile
    • my instagram
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2013, 02:01:24 AM »
Hi patweecia,

What kind of ink are you using? It may be because the ink itself is on the "runny" side (like India ink or any of the bottled stuff) and the paper is possibly porous (it doesn't have to be thin to be porous). If you switch to gouache or Sumi ink, it may solve your problem.

Another option is (if you absolutely must use the envelopes), try gum sandarac. Cut a piece of fabric, put the powder in, and tie it up tight with a rubber band, then gently dab the area you're going to write on, and blow off the excess. It gives your writing surface some "tooth" so your ink can grab onto it.

Hope this helps!

-Linda

Offline patweecia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 630
  • Karma: 13
    • View Profile
    • Patty Paperie
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2013, 02:09:33 AM »
hi linda!


i'm using the herlitz black ink i got from a local bookstore.  i figured i can stick to that first since i'm still learning. ha! 

i think i found some sumi ink here in singapore (is this the one with the chinese characters?). 

as for the gum sandarac, i want to try that out.  i have to find some here in singapore.  if it's not here, where do you think i can buy it from?

thanks!
patricia
instagram    |   blog    |   facebook

Offline Linda Y.

  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1265
  • Karma: 87
  • Calligra-ninja
    • View Profile
    • my instagram
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2013, 02:29:09 AM »
Not all Sumi inks are made the same, unfortunately. If you can find Moon Palace, it's the brand many professional calligraphers recommend:



As for gum sandarac, the link above goes to John Neal Bookseller. Paper & Ink Arts carries it too: http://www.paperinkarts.com/finsan.html

Good luck! :)

Offline Erica McPhee

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7201
  • Karma: 332
  • Be brave. Love life!
    • View Profile
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2013, 05:48:53 PM »
Great suggestions! Also, if you can't get the sandarac, you could try spraying the envelopes lightly with a hairspray like Aquanet. I used it once in a pinch. It made a slight texture to the paper but it worked. you can also make your own sizing from gelatin and water.

I had some envelopes once that wouldn't take any ink (they weren't sized at all). So I made the gelatin sizing and had to paint it on all the envelopes, let them dry, and then could letter on them. Pain but it worked.

The sandarac works great but I am allergic to it. After I pounced over a couple of envelopes and started lettering, my hand started itching like crazy.
Warm Regards,
Erica
Lettering & Design Artist
Flourish Forum Shop
Instagram

Offline patweecia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 630
  • Karma: 13
    • View Profile
    • Patty Paperie
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2013, 12:47:34 AM »
Hi Erica,

I'd give the hair spray technique a try first.  If it doesn't work, then I'll go ahead and buy me some sandarac :)

Thanks for the help!
patricia
instagram    |   blog    |   facebook

Offline Janet Furr

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 07:26:49 PM »
I had this problem while writing names on very thin bible pages. My dear friend & fellow calligrapher here in sunny Sarasota suggested acrylic ink (such as FW Acrylic)  It worked beautifully!!  We often have problems here in Florida because of high humidity. Just be sure to keep separate nibs for acrylic inks. Hope this will help!

Offline Erica McPhee

  • Administrator
  • Super Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7201
  • Karma: 332
  • Be brave. Love life!
    • View Profile
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2014, 09:34:17 PM »
Great tip Janet!  ;D Thanks for sharing! Love seeing you on the forum!  :)
Warm Regards,
Erica
Lettering & Design Artist
Flourish Forum Shop
Instagram

Offline Faeleia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 568
  • Karma: 23
  • Bloop
    • View Profile
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2014, 04:09:41 AM »
Great suggestions! Also, if you can't get the sandarac, you could try spraying the envelopes lightly with a hairspray like Aquanet. I used it once in a pinch. It made a slight texture to the paper but it worked. you can also make your own sizing from gelatin and water.

I had some envelopes once that wouldn't take any ink (they weren't sized at all). So I made the gelatin sizing and had to paint it on all the envelopes, let them dry, and then could letter on them. Pain but it worked.

The sandarac works great but I am allergic to it. After I pounced over a couple of envelopes and started lettering, my hand started itching like crazy.

You are a genius or something because like Patweecia, I wasn't able to get sandarac / Higgins eternal in Singapore, and my papers are like blackholes thirsty for ink. I had a great stack of coloured cards but the moment my nib touches it, it spreads like nobody's business. I'm going to try hair spray.. and maybe gelatin. Have to find the recipe for that though

Offline inkcatcher

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
  • Karma: 9
  • SIENNE
    • View Profile
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2014, 08:35:49 AM »
Had the same problem a few days back! Thanks for all the info guys! And Patweecia, I actually found envelope brands that aren't that expensive. Maybe you can try to look for them? It's Cannon and Village. But I don't really know if they're local or anything. They work well with Higgins Eternal.

On the other note, to not waste the previous envelopes (that also kept on bleeding). I used gouache to write on them. And it works perfectly fine! Goodluck!  ;)
Hi! My name is Sienne (Si-yen/ Shen).
Instagram | Website | Pen Meet Manila

Offline garyn

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 444
  • Karma: 21
    • View Profile
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2014, 11:37:54 AM »
I had this problem while writing names on very thin bible pages. My dear friend & fellow calligrapher here in sunny Sarasota suggested acrylic ink (such as FW Acrylic)  It worked beautifully!!  We often have problems here in Florida because of high humidity. Just be sure to keep separate nibs for acrylic inks. Hope this will help!

Why would you keep the nibs separate?
I would think that as long as you cleaned it well, it should not matter.
I use my nibs in both Speedball acrylic and Higgins Eternal without any apparent problem.
Gary

Offline schin

  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1428
  • Karma: 118
  • Las Vegas
    • View Profile
    • Openinkstand
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2014, 04:09:06 PM »
If you can't find gum sandarac, just go to any art shop and ask for pounce, or artists drafting powder. It works just as well for a cheaper price :)
OPENINKSTAND // website | blog |instagramyoutube

Offline JanisTX

  • Super Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1305
  • Karma: 65
    • View Profile
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2014, 06:41:49 PM »
I posted over in the "Supplies" forum with this exact same problem!  I just ordered some Pounce & acrylic ink & will let you know if that works on these troublesome envelopes!  :)

Offline patweecia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 630
  • Karma: 13
    • View Profile
    • Patty Paperie
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2014, 10:04:35 PM »
oh wow, i haven't checked this forum out for quite some time...i didn't know many of you guys answered my query. thank you thank you thank you!!!

the envelope issue for me was a bit of a hurry as i was in a need to send christmas cards then haha.  i haven't had the chance to work on envelopes since.  i got myself some sumi ink and gouache now, so i will try them again.  i need to give the pen pals thing a go for my practice :) and this will be the perfect opportunity :)

thanks again, guys :)
patricia
instagram    |   blog    |   facebook

Offline patweecia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 630
  • Karma: 13
    • View Profile
    • Patty Paperie
Re: bleeding envelopes
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2014, 10:10:31 PM »
Had the same problem a few days back! Thanks for all the info guys! And Patweecia, I actually found envelope brands that aren't that expensive. Maybe you can try to look for them? It's Cannon and Village. But I don't really know if they're local or anything. They work well with Higgins Eternal.

On the other note, to not waste the previous envelopes (that also kept on bleeding). I used gouache to write on them. And it works perfectly fine! Goodluck!  ;)

i will look into this :)  but i think (i think!) the envelopes weren't the problem because i got them as samples from stationers, and they weren't the thin kind of paper.  i believe it was really the ink that i used.  when i tried higgins with the envelopes, there was less bleeding, but there was still some feathering.

so i will try the sumi and gouache now :)  thanks again :)
patricia
instagram    |   blog    |   facebook