Author Topic: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate  (Read 9460 times)

Offline ericp

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L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« on: April 28, 2015, 11:26:54 AM »
As a resident of Québec, I share my fellow Quebeckers' pride at being halfway (so to speak) between the English world and the French world.   (We poutinize in everything we do  :D )

I have noticed (having lived in Paris for a while) how the French write differently than Brits, Americans, Canadians, and so on.  In fact it seems that there is a French Copperplate variant called "L'Anglaise" (literally: the English).

I actually stumbled upon this article by the Société des Calligraphes (it's in French unfortunately) which briefly talks about a discussion that took place in the nineties.  In the picture there, we can see a bunch of French technical terms but my interest actually lies in some of the graphical aspects (like the flourishes or other small details) that differentiate the canon Copperplate from the French variant.

http://societedescalligraphes.org/?page_id=687#anglaise_yannick

I am also interested in some of the cultural aspects of typography and handwriting, that is, why some fonts (or scripts) are used in French culture and some fonts are used in English culture.   Maybe it's just me, but for example when I write French words in Copperplate, it looks "wrong".   ???

If anyone out there is knowledgeable about the topic, I would appreciate your comments.   Thanks!


Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2015, 11:49:53 AM »
Marvelous! Here is the link for the english version: http://societedescalligraphes.org/?page_id=689&lang=en

Julian Waters' Roman Caps - hearts aflutter!  ;D

I have no thoughts on the cultural aspect of the typography but I do find it interesting as well.
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Offline AndyT

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2015, 12:56:09 PM »
I've come across L'anglaise as the French term for English roundhand, but I'm unaware of a distinctively French copperplate variant.  A quick skim through the first section of Recueil Méthodique de Principes d' Ecriture doesn't look especially Gallic to me, but I'm no specialist.  Oddly enough, the term seems to be in use in Germany, too.

On the other hand, a little deeper into the book there are some unmistakably French scripts.  :)

Offline ericp

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2015, 02:52:24 PM »
I've come across L'anglaise as the French term for English roundhand, but I'm unaware of a distinctively French copperplate variant.  A quick skim through the first section of Recueil Méthodique de Principes d' Ecriture doesn't look especially Gallic to me, but I'm no specialist.  Oddly enough, the term seems to be in use in Germany, too.

On the other hand, a little deeper into the book there are some unmistakably French scripts.  :)
Agreed.  I was surprised to notice that the Germans use the term "Anglaise" as well.

After looking into this topic a bit, I am starting to clarify my own original concern.  I realize that my perception of "gallicism" in writing (based on the examples of handwriting that I have been exposed to) does have some link with the French schooling system.  Looking at the history of the teaching of calligraphy in school is quite interesting, namely how they have adopted new writing technologies (from quill to steel nib to monoline bic pen, etc) and adopted new scripts.

(What's fun to observe is that there probably also are Canadian handwriting styles, both from British and French influences, but I am not there yet.  :)   For instance, it is interesting to note how in Quebec, the school system was up until the 1960's driven by catholic congregations upholding to some degree the penmanship tradition of France.)

Back to the Continent.  I now understand that the ronde, the coulée and the bâtarde are the names that I can put on the faces of these styles that I have seen before and am familiar with.

The bâtarde, from what I understand, apparently has several regional flavours (french, dutch, german).  I saw some fine dutch window lettering in 2012 in the Netherlands, definitely Dutch Copperplate.

Now whether or not the Anglaise/Copperplate truly has all these regional variants, I will need to dig further.  I can say for sure that the few German "Anglaise" examples I have seen on the Web really do not look or feel Gallic to my (untrained, I admit) eye.

I am thinking of going to seventeenth- or eighteenth-century manuscripts to seek for details.


Offline Estefa

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2015, 03:01:39 PM »
Yes, in Germany 'Anglaise' is the posh word for Copperplate (for me with my typography background Copperplate was always a caps font ;D!). We also call it simply 'Englische Schreibschrift' (English Handwriting). I think it has to do with the fact that the Großbürgertum (Grand bourgeoisie) used to talk French a lot.

Just my tired and not very well researched opinion :). I think it's just a name … if you know what I mean.

As an Italian calligraphed once told me 'We don't call Italic Italic in Italy – we say Cancellaresca!'.
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Offline ericp

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2015, 03:33:37 PM »
Yes, in Germany 'Anglaise' is the posh word for Copperplate (for me with my typography background Copperplate was always a caps font ;D!).
hahaha
Did you know that there are some Copperplate font haters out there?  :P  For instance,
http://ihatecopperplate.blogspot.ca/.  I still think it's a relatively classy all caps font compared to other free-font abominations out there.

Offline AndyT

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2015, 05:03:07 PM »
Funnily enough, I don't think copperplate is regarded as particularly English in England - it's certainly never really crossed my mind.  It might be simply that it's so familiar and ubiquitous - a visual shorthand for "classy" which is often anything but.  Mainland European handwriting styles are much more interesting to me, especially the German ones.

Eric: is there much of a French influence on Canadian education, then?  I get the sense that handwriting is taught in an extraordinarily organised way in France, even to the extent of having differently ruled cahiers for various age groups.  Séyès paper is a wonderful invention!

Offline Estefa

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2015, 04:00:04 AM »
Eric, I re-read this thread because I remembered you talked about 'Dutch Copperplate'. There is a whole chapter in the wonderful 'Hand to Type' book about the 'Amsterdamse Krulletter', which is a pointed pen lettering style mostly found hand-painted on old bar windows. Was ist that?

https://www.myfonts.com/fonts/re-type/krul/

This seems to be a whole unique Dutch tradition, going back to one particular Dutch script master in the 17. century called Heuvelman who was influenced by the Italian Cancellaresca by Cresci, the first calligrapher who apparently wrote Cancellaresca with a pointed quill (in 1560).

In the early 20th century, this style by Heuvelman was rediscovered by a Dutch engraver, who published it in a catalogue meant as exemplar for stone masons, engravers etc., and in turn the Dutch sign painter Visser adapted this style for his (mainly) pub letterings. Ramiro Espinoza, type designer, who lives in Amsterdam turned it into a font and all I know about this I found in the chapter by him in 'Hand to Type'. A treasure, that book!

It's a fascinating style, too! Makes me want to learn it.

Andy, I find it really strange that apparently after the 'Universal Penman' there don't seem to be many examples of the English really using that style, or am I wrong?? I vaguely remember a discussion that there are no original writings left of all these people (like Bickham, I mean). Also I have a beautiful little book with love letters, mainly from England, with facsimiles, and the earlier ones are written with some dfferent sorts of Bastarda / Secretary type of scripts, and the later ones in what looks like surprisingly modern, well, just handwriting! Beautiful some, and full of character, but surely not very calligraphic. But I guess for everyday private writing (other than for business purposes) people just didn't care so much about how the actual writing looked – or an individual hand was even looked upon positively. Which, for handwriting, I personally like very much too :).
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Offline AndyT

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2015, 06:24:45 AM »
That Krul font is fascinating, Stefanie, and you can certainly see the Cancellaresca influence.  Although I can understand how it could have developed from lettering with a brush on glass it does look readily achievable with a pointed pen or quill.  For some reason it has a strong 1970s vibe to my eyes!

As far as I can tell a Bickham-esque style was taught in English schools in the 19th century, and there are folk memories of people learning from Carstairs, for instance.  However the distinctive British script of Victorian adults is a sort of simplified copperplate with lots of personal simplifications and deviations from the established models - generally shaded but erratically.  I suppose it's all very well writing the textbook forms in the classroom, but quite another in the context of commerce, casual correspondence or copying out a recipe, say.  That's where the business hands really score of course.  Also in the previous century people must have really struggled with full blown copperplate given that it's notoriously hard on quills.  I don't know that an individual hand was necessarily regarded positively - we're very good at apologising for our handwriting here!  ;)

All in all, I'd say that Secretary hand is a better candidate for a distinctively British formal script since it was fairly practical and widely adopted.

Offline ericp

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2015, 10:21:32 AM »
That Krul font is fascinating, Stefanie, and you can certainly see the Cancellaresca influence.  Although I can understand how it could have developed from lettering with a brush on glass it does look readily achievable with a pointed pen or quill.  For some reason it has a strong 1970s vibe to my eyes!
I agree, the Krul font captures nicely that Dutch feeling, but like any digital font its perfection wipes out the "perfect imperfection" of the master window letterer's work.  My recollection of the window lettering is a sort of timeless elegance, and certainly not any wishy-washy 1970s work  :D

Thanks for pointing that out Stefanie, I will look into these Heuvelman and Visser guys.

Offline ericp

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2015, 10:27:55 AM »
Eric: is there much of a French influence on Canadian education, then?  I get the sense that handwriting is taught in an extraordinarily organised way in France, even to the extent of having differently ruled cahiers for various age groups.  Séyès paper is a wonderful invention!
In Québec, say two generations ago, handwriting was still taken quite seriously.  The nuns and sisters who taught in school were very strict about it.  Of course as the schooling shifted to the modern non-denominational variety, that simply disappeared and replaced by computer literacy skills, I suppose.

But my impression is that handwriting in Québec was never as it was (and still seems to be) in France.  Over there, handwriting is a big deal.

<googling Seyes paper>

Ah!  Is that what it's called?!   I just learned something today!   :P   (We don't use that in Québec, but we should!)


Offline ericp

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2015, 10:42:10 AM »
Here's more about Mr.Visser as told by the creator of the Krul font.  A very interesting read!  Check out the delightful variations!   <3

http://ilovetypography.com/2012/06/18/krul-the-untold-historyof-the-amsterdamse-krulletter/

Offline Estefa

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2015, 11:35:18 AM »
That article is actually (at least at first glance) more or less the chapter from the 'Hand to type' book (I am not in my studio at the moment, so I can't check – I think there were some more pics) :)!
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Offline ericp

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2015, 05:29:02 PM »
Here's a link to another interview (in Dutch!) with Heer Beukeboom.  Even if you don't wish to google-translate it, there are a few pictures of the window lettering of those Amsterdam bars:

http://www.stonetwins.com/Enlightenment/LeoBeukeboom.aspx

I find that lettering extremely enticing, I don't know why, but I will explore it.  In my brain, it defines "Dutchness".

P.S. In an unusual effort to restrain myself, I have tried to refrain from purchasing the book, but I admit readily my failure:  I ordered the Espinoza book    ::)     Why try and fight it?  I am a sucker for art books................. And besides, Amsterdam is such an incredible city!

http://www.lecturisbooks.nl/en/webshop/the-curly-letter-of-amsterdam/62955


Offline ericp

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Re: L'anglaise, French variant of copperplate
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2015, 11:44:26 AM »
Back to the French variant original question:

Yesterday at the library, I got a couple of books that discuss the influences on French penmanship over the centuries.  I will try to digest that and when I do, I will try to summarize my findings here.

Thank you very much for your observations, guiding me to well-established sources of information.  I didn't know when beginning to poke around with a steel nib that I would embark on a journey about the history of calligraphy!   :)

What I understand so far is that the practice of Copperplate (stemming from Britain) had some influence over the existence handwriting practices in France, however it also makes sense that the French retained some "Gallicness" to their penmanship.

In music for instance, it is well known that the French were very late in adopting the Italian style of sonatas and concertos, sticking to the canon established by Lully for the longest time, triggering huge aesthetic debates.  It is not surprising to me therefore that in penmanship they would also be reticent to adopt/imitate something from the Brits in its exact form and shape  :D