Copperplate Newbie: Are my downstrokes too thick?

[gerine]

I just very recently got into practicing the tutorials posted in the pointed pen nirvana section. When I got into the parts where I should practice with words, I noticed my words differ in look depending on how much pressure I put into pressing the nib for downstrokes. Seeing as how significant it can be, I'm wondering if there is a thickness 'rule' that should be followed or if it all depends on the calligrapher.

Here's actual photos of my practice earlier. The first photo has thicker downstrokes than the second one. Which looks more like Copperplate? Am I doing anything wrong?

Do my questions even make sense or am I overthinking these worksheets? Haha. Any help would be appreciated. 

[prasad]

Hi Gernie,

Great writing. 
I had exactly the same question for the forum when I started out.

The basic reply was "do what you feel looks good"
There are exemplars where shades are made to the max allowable by the nib.

For a more technical reply, this is what SMK ( member of the forum) said
" Just putting it in here for anyone still interested in the original question of shade thickness for classic Copperplate. Some texts do recommend a full shade thickness of 1/5th of the letter width. The letter width is 1/2 of the x-height for an 'o', 'c', 'e', 'x' and adjusted to be a bit more for 'a', 'd', 'g' etc.

There are half-shades used in majuscules e.g. the shade on the left part of the 'B', 'D' etc. - these shades are half the width of the main shade.

Engrosser's script is written with thicker shades than Copperplate."

You can find that thread here

http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=1037.0

Hope it helps.
Happy writing

-Prasad

[AndyT]

Hello Gerine. 

Which do you prefer?  Because "do what you feel looks good" is a good answer, unless your final goal is a formal hand which follows a historical model closely.  If you are aiming for formal don't worry about overthinking things, because the more analytical you are the better.

Whichever you decide on, I think you would do well to pay close attention to your slant, too.

[gerine]

Thank you, Prasad! The technical explanation is still a but too much for my level, but I hope to soon understand. I need to read more about Copperplate and calligraphy. The thread is helpful. Glad to know I'm not the only one wondering about this when they first started out. 

Whichever you decide on, I think you would do well to pay close attention to your slant, too.

Thank you for the reminder, Andy! I do have some trouble with the consistency of my slant sometimes. I hope to improve this with practice.

Sorry for the newbie question but do you have any idea where I could find the proper exemplars/tutorials for studying formal Copperplate? Are the ones posted in the pointed pen nirvana section by Erica considered formal?

[prasad]

Thank you, Prasad! The technical explanation is still a but too much for my level, but I hope to soon understand. I need to read more about Copperplate and calligraphy. The thread is helpful. Glad to know I'm not the only one wondering about this when they first started out. 

Sorry for the newbie question but do you have any idea where I could find the proper exemplars/tutorials for studying formal Copperplate? Are the ones posted in the pointed pen nirvana section by Erica considered formal?

Most welcome.

Erica's tutorials are perfect to understand the concepts of pointed pen, pressure and formation of letters.  I found it to be the perfect place to start.  Dr.Vitolo had great resources if you want to study formal copperplate.  He gets into the technicality of each letter and formation.

He has a great interactive book with videos for the iPad.  you can download it for free.  The link is about halfway down the page at
http://zanerian.com

If you don't have an iPad you can see his videos at the IAMPETH site (Video sections)  Pages 1 and 2 have the capitals and 3 onwards is the minuscules.

For slants, height and widths you can try the following:

Use guidelines from this site.

http://shipbrook.net/guidelines/

This allows you to set the size of the x height.
5 per inch is about 5mm x height.(The calculation is 24.5/no. per inch = x height in mm)   You can choose "custom" to make even 1 per inch.
You can also set the distance between the slants.  To get good spacing, you should make the slant distance about half the x height. 

So you can make the selections like below:
 
Ascenders - 2 x
Space - no overlap
Angled - 55 degree
Every - (choose mm ) and mention a figure that is half the x height.
 
5 lines per inch is about 5mm x height.  So the "Every" option will be 3 mm
3 lines is about 8mm  - Every option 4 mm
and 2 lines is about 13 mm - every option 6 mm
 
This is helpful in the forming of width of the letters and spacing.
The width of a letter should be half the height and the space between alphabets should be half height in most cases.

Next is the option to vary the darkness of the guides. 
If you set it to 25% black or non-photo blue and then print on your practice paper, you can practice directly on the guidelines itself.

Set it to 100% and you can use it behind your paper.

This helped me a LOT in understanding the spacing and width to height relations of the alphabet.

There aren't many exemplars that show the slant lines drawn in and give an idea of spacing.  But in a thread about quills Brush My Fennac had a post of writing samples.  This was the only place I could see the slants drawn in to form each letter.  Picture attached below. 

Sorry for the tediously long post  
But I have been through exactly what you have and the people on this forum gave me perfect guidance to move ahead in the Proper manner.

-Prasad

[Erica McPhee]

Such wonderful replies so far! I would also note that the nib you use will also make a difference in the thickness of your downstrokes. The Hiro 41 or Hunt 56 or Gillott 404 will all make thicker downstrokes than the Nikko G. 

[AnasaziWrites]

5 per inch is about 5mm x height.(The calculation is 24.5/no. per inch = x height in mm)
-Prasad

Of course, you meant 25.4/no. per inch = x height in mm

good post, Prasad.

[prasad]

5 per inch is about 5mm x height.(The calculation is 24.5/no. per inch = x height in mm)
-Prasad

Of course, you meant 25.4/no. per inch = x height in mm

good post, Prasad.

Thanks
Of course I did    Just checking to see if people paid attention to what I wrote 

-Prasad

[gerine]

Wow. Thank you so much Prasad! You have been most helpful. I'm truly grateful to you being so generous in teaching. I will look into Dr. Vitolo's videos and start learning formal copperplate. Wish me luck! 

The site for guidelines is also excellent! Now I don't have to line my paper manually. It could be such a hassle sometimes. Glad you shared the site!

I would also note that the nib you use will also make a difference in the thickness of your downstrokes. The Hiro 41 or Hunt 56 or Gillott 404 will all make thicker downstrokes than the Nikko G. 

Thank you, Erica! Also for your tutorials. I just acquired a Nikko G today and am very happy with how it writes. Very beginner friendly nib.