Author Topic: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate  (Read 19302 times)

Offline ash0kgiri

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Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate
« on: June 15, 2016, 02:07:13 PM »
Hello Everyone,

Its been couple of weeks that i have joined this amazing Forum and its pleasure to interact with like minded people.
And today after downloading Erica's drill sheet (thanks to @prasad for helping me find out) for me it was quite a productive day.
I just finished 7 worksheets of Drills and here it is for every one to comment and Criticise and help me understand areas of improvement.

Before i got hold of these amazing worksheets i used to write words, alphabets or poems for practise (which will be uploaded soon for your valuable comments) and today i realise how important it is to practise drills and improve muscle memory.

So don't forget to 'Right' what is 'Wrong'.

Thanks,
Ashok

« Last Edit: April 03, 2017, 04:04:15 PM by ash0kgiri »

Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2016, 06:58:02 AM »
Hi

Here are few more drills and practise sheets.
Would appreciate if you could comment and give me your honest feedback and areas of improvisation.

As i said, please RIGHT if anything is wrong.

Ashok

Offline ericp

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2016, 01:29:32 PM »
I love the flourishing in the practice sheet 3 (including the ink spots caused by the upstroke  ;) )

Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2016, 01:47:21 PM »
Thanks Eric for taking time to comment.
Let me know if i could improvise it in anyway.

Ashok

Offline AndyT

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2016, 02:53:04 PM »
I've probably visited this thread half a dozen times now, and each time backed away thinking I'm not competent to comment.  Which is true!

All the same, sheets 3 and 4 look particularly attractive to me: written with confidence and panache.  I see very little to critique in those.  As for sheets 1 and 2, your slant wanders a bit, but I'm guessing that you're well aware of that and have probably gone a long way towards curing it.  For my taste the writing is heavy for copperplate, but that's a judgment for you to make.  With a bit of luck some of the copperplate specialists will turn up and have something to say for themselves before long.

Offline Elizabeth O.

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2016, 03:09:19 PM »
Hi!

I'm loving what I'm seeing - great work so far!!  You've done a lot and practiced a lot and it shows.

Something to work on: I'm looking at the first drill sheet that you posted.  The fifth line has an upstroke-downstroke-upstroke drill.  When you do that drill, aim for keeping the shades and hairlines parallel and spaced evenly.  The shades and hairlines should also be on that same slant line.  In general, it looks like the over-turn is consistently wider than the under-turn - you want to try to get those to be as close to the same size as possible. 

That being said, your hairline and shade transition is really nice!  Especially on the last figure in that drill line.  Keep going!!  And, please keep us updated on your progress!  ;D
All the best -- E.O.

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Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2016, 03:25:14 PM »
You have a nice Copperplate hand Ashok. You have a good eye for spacing.

Since you asked for critique, I will mention some things that caught my eye.

1. You have a tendency to reduce the slant. This is quite common, especially so when writing with a straight holder. All you need to fix this is rotate your paper counter-clockwise a bit. When you put your pen to paper, the direction of the slit in the nib should more or less line up with the slant lines. (BTW - you can also just draw your slant lines to be closer to the vertical if you like it that way. The important thing is to be consistent.)

2. The letters 'a', 'd', 'g', 'q' all start with an 'o' which is followed by the vertical stroke e.g. 'a' will be written by drawing an 'o' followed by drawing an 'i'. In the examples above, the right side of the 'o' is left open in these letters - this is most noticeable in the 'a'.

3. The letters 'u' and 'w' start with an 'i' stroke. There is no turning at the top of the first stroke like you have drawn in 'understands' in the last example above.

4. The letters 'y' and 'v' do have a turn at the top i.e. they start with a compound curve. See 'everything' and 'hungry' in the last example above - the 'v' and 'y' should have a turn at the top.

I cannot tell for sure but it appears to me that the slant lines are a bit too slanted. Please ensure that these are at least 55 degrees from the horizontal.

I hope this helps :-)

- Salman
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Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2016, 04:13:57 PM »
You have a nice Copperplate hand Ashok. You have a good eye for spacing.

Since you asked for critique, I will mention some things that caught my eye.

1. You have a tendency to reduce the slant. This is quite common, especially so when writing with a straight holder. All you need to fix this is rotate your paper counter-clockwise a bit. When you put your pen to paper, the direction of the slit in the nib should more or less line up with the slant lines. (BTW - you can also just draw your slant lines to be closer to the vertical if you like it that way. The important thing is to be consistent.)

2. The letters 'a', 'd', 'g', 'q' all start with an 'o' which is followed by the vertical stroke e.g. 'a' will be written by drawing an 'o' followed by drawing an 'i'. In the examples above, the right side of the 'o' is left open in these letters - this is most noticeable in the 'a'.

3. The letters 'u' and 'w' start with an 'i' stroke. There is no turning at the top of the first stroke like you have drawn in 'understands' in the last example above.

4. The letters 'y' and 'v' do have a turn at the top i.e. they start with a compound curve. See 'everything' and 'hungry' in the last example above - the 'v' and 'y' should have a turn at the top.

I cannot tell for sure but it appears to me that the slant lines are a bit too slanted. Please ensure that these are at least 55 degrees from the horizontal.

I hope this helps :-)

- Salman

Hi Salman,

Thats a very detailed and well explained mail. And thanks for the kind words. Much appreciate.
I will go back to the drill worksheets and make sure the points mentioned by you are looked into.
The last sheet that you see is done before i did any drill exercise ever before. And today i have done a long para after i have done the drills.
Have attached the sheet for you and everyone to comment and criticise.

I agree with you on the slant line. It looked too slanted once i started doing it, but continued as i was practicing.
Will make sure that the slant is 55 degree. I have ordered for an oblique pen from Paper & Ink and will reach me by end of this month.
India its very difficult to find these things. Also i would like to mention that the paper i use is very rough and on up stroke it gets stuck and i cant confidently make that stroke as it would tear the paper or splatter the ink. (or may be i should just try and do it)

Thanks again for taking your valuable time. And this mail will be definitely my ref point whenever im practising.

Ashok

Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2016, 04:20:35 PM »
Hi!

I'm loving what I'm seeing - great work so far!!  You've done a lot and practiced a lot and it shows.

Something to work on: I'm looking at the first drill sheet that you posted.  The fifth line has an upstroke-downstroke-upstroke drill.  When you do that drill, aim for keeping the shades and hairlines parallel and spaced evenly.  The shades and hairlines should also be on that same slant line.  In general, it looks like the over-turn is consistently wider than the under-turn - you want to try to get those to be as close to the same size as possible. 

That being said, your hairline and shade transition is really nice!  Especially on the last figure in that drill line.  Keep going!!  And, please keep us updated on your progress!  ;D

Hi Elizabeth,

Thanks for sparing your valuable time to comment on the drills.
Now that i look again i can see were i went wrong. Will again go back to the drill sheets keeping things in mind that you have suggested.

I just updated my todays practise sheet for you and everyone to comment and criticise. This was done after the drill exercise for me to understand if im following what i learnt. Please do have a look.

Thanks again,
Ashok

Offline Garima

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2016, 01:34:44 AM »
I don't think i've accomplished enough to comment on your practice sheets but i would like to ask you what paper are you using? In case i can help! I've also had a lot of trouble finding the right paper when i started.
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Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2016, 08:03:25 AM »
Hi Garima,

I have seen your drills and they are amazing. So please go ahead. Every single comment is welcome and important to me.
The paper im using is an inkjet paper that you find in printing machines and whatever i find around me. I have not taken the effort to search for a specific paper. But it would be great if you could suggest me few and i can start on that.

Thanks,
Ashok

Offline prasad

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2016, 08:41:43 AM »
Hi Ashok,
First off,  great work.  Your writing is coming along superbly.  Just a couple of pointers over and above why everyone has already said here.

For paper:
I use the Bilt Executive Bond 85gsm printer paper.  You can also get 100 gsm paper which also works really well too.
As you are in Mumbai,  keep the paper ream in an airtight plastic paper wrap until you are going to use it.  If you leave it out for a while, it can start feathering when you specially use fountain pen ink.  This happens to me,in Pune itself, which is quite a dry place.

What ink are you using?
Have you ordered Walnut ink crystals from PIA?  If not, Send me your address by Personal message and I'll send you some.  It writes beautifully.

For guidelines:
Check out this thread and Reply #4.

http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=3322.msg45957#msg45957
I have explained how to use and makes guidelines.

You can print this out on the sheet and write over the guidelines.  Initially it helps me such a lot.
Salman had advised me about this earlier too.  height to width ratio is critical in Copperplate.  Try to keep it to width = half height.  It's all mentioned in the above thread.

Another very important this I was told by all in this Forum during my early practise:

Don't bother about flourishing.  Once you have the letter form down, it will come naturally.  You have superb pen control from what I have seen in your other work on IG. 
In this style start focus on ovals.  They are the CORE of this style of writing.

I use practise words like,   minimum, cooeeing, hillbilly, saudade, schwarzkopf vexed iraq big time in july. 


You've said that your order has already gone out to PIA.  But trust me,  you will be ordering a lot more very soon.  This is a very addictive art form.  For future reference read through this thread for tools and supplies

http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=3779.0


Hope this helps.
Happy writing
-Prasad
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Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2016, 04:33:44 AM »
Hi Prasad,

Thanks for taking time to write such a detailed mail and for your kind words of appreciation.
I got so engrossed in the posts and links you mentioned that i almost forgot to reply back. Its definitely a very addictive art form.

Point taken on the paper bit. Im sure it will help me quite a bit. And Garima also had some suggestions on the same. Hope they are easily availble at stationary stores?
Unfortunately I haven't ordered the walnut ink crystals. May be will do that in my next order. Currently i use Sumi ink and sometimes Pilot Blue or Black.
Your post and receipe on how to make you own ink is just amazing. And im very tempted to try it out myself. Hope the ingredients are easily available or let me knw if there is any online site from were you order.

Coming to my writing. Previously i never knew there were drills and worksheets and a step to step guide. So i used to just write and try to copy the lettering.
But thanks to 'IAMPETH' and now 'Flourish Forum' that im exposed to all this methodogical way of learning. And i can see the progress. Sometime i get carried away and thats why you see the bad flourishes here and there. But i will try and avoid henceforth.

The topic 'Then and now' is a good initiative and a great means to compare and inspire new learners like me. It helps me realize that the more you practice the better you will get.

Thanks again,
Ashok

Offline Garima

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2016, 03:54:55 PM »
Point taken on the paper bit. Im sure it will help me quite a bit. And Garima also had some suggestions on the same.

Okay so Prasad has already covered the paper bit :)

Bilt Royal Executive Bond 85gsm printer paper which i've also been practicing on. And yes the 100gsm paper works well too.
I've also used some conqueror ultra smooth diamond white 100gsm to write some letters. Since you work in an Ad agency, i'm sure you can source it, i did the same. But i don't use it for daily practice.

I was using the Daniel Smith walnut ink earlier and then Prasad sent me some walnut crystals. Thanks to him, i use only that for my practice now. Its gentle on nibs, flows nicely, highlights the flaws better and is economical!

You definitely should concentrate on the letterforms when you begin, is what i've heard and applying to my practice. I wanted to flourish as prettily as i could in the beginning but after a few failed attempts i just stuck to practicing the basics first and that's what i've been doing since i started in January this year. Flourishes can wait  :)

If you focus on just the letterforms, you'll start noticing whenever and wherever you make an error. If you have a problem with your slant angle, do one row and check the angle. In fact, after every 3 rows i critique my work and try improvising. Also, check erica's post here http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=181.0
Hth!

Prasad, why did you not send me that awesome link when i began?!  :D
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 04:15:00 PM by Garima »
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Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2016, 07:39:22 AM »
Hi Garima,

Thanks for taking time and replying. Appreciate.
Bought the Bilt Royal Exec bond 100gms yesterday. Will do some drills in a while.

So true about the flourishes and that a very valuable suggestion. Sometime you tend to get carried away.
Have heard so much about the walnut crystals and wish i would have met you guys before i ordered from PIA.
Anyways Prasad is been generous to offer me some  :)

I will talk to you later about the frequency of orders you place with PIA and time it takes to get delivered.
Right now my friend is getting for me so no worries about duties and customs, but if im not mistaken if your order is below $40 you have to pay @13 as shipping charges,
Duty i've no idea.

Ashok