Author Topic: Please RIGHT if I'm WRONG - Copperplate  (Read 19270 times)

Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2016, 04:27:09 PM »
You can post any work you would like to share. However, please do not post any person's address (including those with the numbers blocked out). I actually would prefer members share work other than envelopes. Thanks for asking!
Truly, Erica
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Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2016, 02:10:22 AM »
Hi Erica,

Point noted.

Thanks,
Ashok

Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2016, 11:32:02 AM »
Hello Everyone,

New worksheets awaiting your, 'Kind Critique'. There are lot of mistakes that i have noted down. Like the ovals are not perfect, missed the slant angle quite a bit, the upper and lower loop are inconsistent. The hairlines are shaky. Unequal spacing...

I would like all of you to please share your valuable comments and further scope of improvement especially the ones who had commented and guided me before @jeanwilson, @SMK, @evjo, @prasad, @Garima.

Thanks for your time,
Ashok

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2016, 11:52:17 AM »
This is much improved Ashok. I am glad to see you have started writing the 'w' differently :-)

I think it might be more useful to work on groups of letters of the same shape at this point. As an example the letters i, u, and w are all based on the same 'i' stroke while 't' and 'l' are just long 'i' strokes. The letter 'b' is just an 'l' that with the exit hairline going up to the waist line. How about posting 5 words (e.g. tilt, ill, built etc.) made up of just these letters?

Please feel free to write longer texts if you feel like it but it helps to limit the focus of your practise sessions.

Regards,
Salman
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Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2016, 01:02:17 PM »
Hi Salman,

Thanks for your time and kind words. It really helps.
Let me get back to my desk and start with the group of letters you mentioned.

Regards,
Ashok

Offline prasad

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2016, 09:58:33 PM »
Hi Ashok,
Really great improvement in your work.  I consider myself a beginner too, but I shall tell you what I was told for practise.

Like Salman rightly said, basic shapes need lot of practise.  Ovals, and ascender/descenders are crazy always.

I use the following to do my daily practise.  I try to get the x height to about 8mm, this really shows off the mistakes immediately. 

Words I use are  " cooking,  hillbilly,  minimum, saudade, little, -  Schwarzkopf vexed Iraq big time in July  "

Now if you really want it to be perfect, Do what Dr.Vitolo suggested.  Write words like cooking and little.  Then cover the top half of the x height with a paper,  the bottom half curves  should all be equal and the same.

The picture below is buy writing from 2 years ago, I still have not managed this  ;D ;D   Did not want to put Dr.Vitolo's image on here so put mine.  Should give you an idea of what I am talking about.

This was the main advice I received.  "Focus on words,  if you write full pages, you are concentrating on the text matter like spelling and stuff and not on the alphabet formation." 

Hope that helps

Can't wait to see your work with the walnut ink too. You should be getting that in a day or two for sure :)
-Prasad 
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 10:00:33 PM by prasad »
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Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2016, 02:20:29 AM »
Hi Prasad,

Thanks for taking time to review and comment on the work. Really appreciate.
And agree that you tend to concentrate on text matter and spelling when you are writing full pages. Somehow i don't feel satisfied if i don't write something long. But let me see how i can apply your and @SMK suggestions in my long page writing along with the single letter drills that you have mentioned.

As i have mentioned that I closely follow Dr. Vitolo's videos and book while doing my drills. And i remember seeing what you posted.
Will be posting the drills that i did yesterday night for everyone to review. Find time to have a look and comments whenever possible.

Cant wait for the Walnut Ink. Thank you so much Prasad for sending it.

Ashok

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2016, 02:48:16 AM »
Ashok - please feel free to write the full page compositions - those look nice and must be quite satisfying. The practice words I suggested can be done in addition to them.

In my opinion, you take on too much when doing full compositions like that. There are just too many things going on with different types of joins, inter-letter and inter-word spacing, opportunities for flourishing, occasional majuscules etc. for one to be able to pay attention to (and get really good at) any one thing. Breaking down the various components helps with learning each element well.

Having said that, we all learn differently. Motivation is more important than method so please feel free to ignore my suggestion if it doesn't work for you.

- Salman
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Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2016, 07:47:50 AM »
Hi @SMK

Im learning and you cant do that with a close-mind. Infact I have not tried enough to know whats working for me. Currently every piece of information and advice is only helping me. I write full page compostions because it gives me satisfaction. But its also true that breaking down elements or practising individual words helps with perfecting the form and build muscle memory. I always do a page or two of single alphabets / words as warm up before i go to full page compositions.

Attached are few practise sheets that you told me to do. I quite enjoyed it and it definitely helped me a lot. These were practised on an A3 paper as per your guide-sheet provided. Im still writing more words as it was 3:00 AM when i stopped. Please have a look and would be glad to know what you think and scope for improvisation.

FYI, the 'i' is written with Brause Rose nib and i felt the hairline was not thin enough and then i changed the Nib to Hunt 101.

Thanks again for your time and valuable piece of advice.

Regards,
Ashok

Offline prasad

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2016, 10:30:01 AM »
Great practise.
Wish I had your discipline ;D

Quick note:
When you dot the i and j make the dot same diameter as thickness of the downstroke.
Small thing will immediately make it look uniform

Happy writing
Prasad
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Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2016, 11:23:41 AM »
Hi Prasad,

Agree. I just kept it little smaller because in Dr. Vitolo's video he mentioned it better to keep it small as it shouldn't be a point of attraction.
But no harm trying and making it bigger.

Thanks,
Ashok

Offline jeanwilson

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2016, 09:15:35 PM »
i only have my phone for the next two weeks, so i can't see the details enough to make any comments. what i have read in the comments from the others is excellent advice.

i would encourage you to stop writing many lines of just one letter at a time. the connections and spacing is as important as the letters and you are missing half of what you need when you write separate letters. groups of two or three letters is fine. also, make sure you are thinking about proper word spacing between your groups of letters.

one of the elements that i heard from all of my teachers is to learn to look at the white space as much as you look at the strokes you are making. if you have not heard about doing this - let me know. it's one of those details that can make a big difference.

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2016, 02:15:04 AM »
This is good work Ashok.

I agree with Jean in that writing letters over and over can get boring. One of the techniques I learned from my teacher is to practice in groups of 5. Here is how it works: Write the letter you are practising 5 times. Now stop and go over each letter and place a tick (or check) mark over the best one. Now try to replicate the best one 5 more times and repeat the evaluation placing marks over the good ones. You know you have a letter down pat when you can get 3 or 4 good ones out of 5.

Practising with words is important. That is why I asked for the 5 words :-)

Now for some feedback.

1. I think your lead-in stroke is a bit too straight. It should be almost vertical at about halfway between the base and waist lines. This way the join with the shaded stroke will be smooth. Look at examples in the reference I mentioned earlier for good examples.

2. The shaded strokes start to become thin too early. Keep the 'i' full width for the first 2/3 of the stroke. The pressure is released in the last 1/3rd of the stroke. This applies to 't' as well.

3. The crossbar of the 't' should be straight.

4. The letter 'u' is too wide. The width of the letter should be 1/2 its height (not including the lead-in and exit hairlines).

5. Your spacing is generally very good. In the first 'tilt' the t-i and l-t joins are very good. However, the i-l join is a bit off - the exit stroke fo the 'i' should join the 'l' a little higher up at about halfway between the base and waist lines.

6. Your letters are bouncing on the base line a little i.e. some go below it while others don't quite reach it. This is easily fixed if you try to 'hit' the waist and base lines and lift the pen off the page at the base for a beat. Just lift it off slightly off the page and then put right back and continue with the hairline.

Don't worry about the hairlines and how fine a stroke you are getting at this point. These are issues that can easily be addressed later one. For now, you should practice with an ink+paper+nib combination that works consistently and without trouble.

Also, the angled pictures don't tell us much. The head on pictures show the letter shapes much more clearly.

I hope this feedback is useful to you. I group i, u, w, t, l, b, and j together in my workshops.

Regards,
Salman
« Last Edit: August 03, 2016, 10:47:51 AM by Erica McPhee »
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Offline ash0kgiri

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2016, 04:55:37 AM »

one of the elements that i heard from all of my teachers is to learn to look at the white space as much as you look at the strokes you are making. if you have not heard about doing this - let me know. it's one of those details that can make a big difference.


Hi @jeanwilson,

I agree it tends to get a little boring, but i feel practising single alphabets have made me more disciplined.
Words are more fun and you find a nice rhythm and variation while you practice.

Been into advertising and from an art school. Im very much aware of the white space / negative spacing fundamentals as i apply them daily during my work. Its more to do with ad layouts which includes fonts, spacing, kerning etc. But as you rightly mentioned applying this to while you are doing it is a different ball game and needs lots of practice. Im definitely working towards it.

Thanks again jean and i appreciate you taking time while on a holiday.

Regards,
Ashok

Offline Salman Khattak

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Re: Please RIGHT if im WRONG
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2016, 06:33:55 AM »
You can find more instructions in the link in my signature :-)

Regards,
Salman

Just saw this one and it's AWESOME.   :)  Thanks for the link and the tutorial.  This is going to help me a lot in fine tuning. 

-Prasad

You are most welcome Prasad. I do hope you find it useful. I will add more details and further lessons there over the next few weeks. Please feel free to let me know if there are specific areas you would like me to cover.

Regards,
Salman
I have an opinion and I'm not afraid to use it.

Copperplate Tutorial :: Hand Carved Holders / Workshops / Prints