Author Topic: Flourished "Calligraphy"  (Read 6583 times)

Offline Ken Fraser

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Flourished "Calligraphy"
« on: March 22, 2014, 11:57:27 AM »

Offline Milonguera

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Re: Flourished "Calligraphy"
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2014, 10:21:48 AM »
Ken, I'm looking at flourishing (among other aspects of calligraphy) now and saw this beautiful example.  The thing that confuses me and I've not seen explained is WHEN to flourish.  I'm talking about when as in when do you add the flourish in the construction of the letter.  For example, the second "l" has a flourish that is all hairline till the stem of the letter.  Is that flourish put there before the shaded downstroke is made, or is it added after? 
Debbie

Offline Ken Fraser

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Re: Flourished "Calligraphy"
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2014, 07:57:43 AM »
Ken, I'm looking at flourishing (among other aspects of calligraphy) now and saw this beautiful example.  The thing that confuses me and I've not seen explained is WHEN to flourish.  I'm talking about when as in when do you add the flourish in the construction of the letter.  For example, the second "l" has a flourish that is all hairline till the stem of the letter.  Is that flourish put there before the shaded downstroke is made, or is it added after?



Think of flourishing, not as added before or after a letter is written, but as part of it. In fact, you're creating a variation of the basic letter.

Flourishing a letter can be memorised but is usually planned to an extent. In the example you mentioned, the letter 'l' starts at the top with a flourish and extends to the foot of the letter in one even stroke. I usually try various forms of flourishing in pencil on a separate sheet until I had one which like. I then write it in pencil lightly on the artwork in the correct position and then write the letter in ink in one even movement - not too slow and not too fast. The pencil draft is just a guide, and unlike the letters themselves which have definite proportions, flourishing is flexible, and the difference of a millimetre or so, has no detrimental effect. The pencil line is just an aid to memory, so that you don't hesitate in mid-stroke which inevitably results in jerky flourishing.
 
Sometimes a freehand stroke is added to flourishing for added interest. The flourishing into or out of the letters  is always completed first and then the extra stroke, if required, is added.

Flourishing a piece of work always looks best if the flourishing is an addition to the lettering itself, and doesn't just float around, to fill in space.

Hope this helps.

Ken

Offline AndyT

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Re: Flourished "Calligraphy"
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2014, 08:09:16 AM »
That's very helpful Ken, thank you.

Offline Milonguera

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Re: Flourished "Calligraphy"
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2014, 09:55:17 AM »
Ken, I'm looking at flourishing (among other aspects of calligraphy) now and saw this beautiful example.  The thing that confuses me and I've not seen explained is WHEN to flourish.  I'm talking about when as in when do you add the flourish in the construction of the letter.  For example, the second "l" has a flourish that is all hairline till the stem of the letter.  Is that flourish put there before the shaded downstroke is made, or is it added after?



Think of flourishing, not as added before or after a letter is written, but as part of it. In fact, you're creating a variation of the basic letter.

Flourishing a letter can be memorised but is usually planned to an extent. In the example you mentioned, the letter 'l' starts at the top with a flourish and extends to the foot of the letter in one even stroke. I usually try various forms of flourishing in pencil on a separate sheet until I had one which like. I then write it in pencil lightly on the artwork in the correct position and then write the letter in ink in one even movement - not too slow and not too fast. The pencil draft is just a guide, and unlike the letters themselves which have definite proportions, flourishing is flexible, and the difference of a millimetre or so, has no detrimental effect. The pencil line is just an aid to memory, so that you don't hesitate in mid-stroke which inevitably results in jerky flourishing.
 
Sometimes a freehand stroke is added to flourishing for added interest. The flourishing into or out of the letters  is always completed first and then the extra stroke, if required, is added.

Flourishing a piece of work always looks best if the flourishing is an addition to the lettering itself, and doesn't just float around, to fill in space.

Hope this helps.

Ken

You hope this helps!?  :o  Ken, I feel like I've been given a key that opens the front door of a palace.  Thank You!  (I'm going to post this but if Thank You shows up like I'm seeing it, with gobbeldygook around it, that's a Bold, Italic and Underlined, Thank You!)

Debbie



Debbie

Offline thistledesignstudio

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Re: Flourished "Calligraphy"
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2014, 11:22:34 AM »
Beautiful!   ;D
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Offline themessycake

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Re: Flourished "Calligraphy"
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2014, 04:54:43 AM »
Wow this is an inspiring piece.  I've always been fascinated by intricate flourishes but what I find rather daunting is figuring out where the flourish starts, and where it ends.  Someone already asked about when to flourish but I wonder about artful words and letters that seem to link to each other by their flourishes, yet look like one beautiful block image. It's so intricate that I can't even find the start or end point :)  I just started calligraphy two weeks ago and am still feeling rather lost.  So I hope this post is making some sense?

Cheers,

Cherie
:) Cherie A.B.
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Offline Milonguera

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Re: Flourished "Calligraphy"
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2014, 10:00:23 AM »
Wow this is an inspiring piece.  I've always been fascinated by intricate flourishes but what I find rather daunting is figuring out where the flourish starts, and where it ends.  Someone already asked about when to flourish but I wonder about artful words and letters that seem to link to each other by their flourishes, yet look like one beautiful block image. It's so intricate that I can't even find the start or end point :)  I just started calligraphy two weeks ago and am still feeling rather lost.  So I hope this post is making some sense?

Cheers,

Cherie

Hi Cherie,

You're asking the same question I did, in a way.  I think Ken's example and comments suggest one way--as I understand it, the flourish is a part of the letter and in the case of the second "L," the flourish is laid down at the beginning of drawing the letter, that is, before the stem. 

But I understand there are other ways of doing it: after the letter, and then, after the word or line or piece is completed, sometimes by even turning the paper, as is evidenced by the heavier shades you see sometimes that make no sense if you're looking at the piece straight on. 

Schin posted a little 5 word piece on IG yesterday that shows how most of the flourishes are part of the letter, while others appear to have been added after. 

My biggest challenge in all this flourishing is in allowing lines to cross.  I must've done that in elementary school and irked a nun. 
Debbie

Offline themessycake

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Re: Flourished "Calligraphy"
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2014, 09:45:51 PM »
Wow this is an inspiring piece.  I've always been fascinated by intricate flourishes but what I find rather daunting is figuring out where the flourish starts, and where it ends.  Someone already asked about when to flourish but I wonder about artful words and letters that seem to link to each other by their flourishes, yet look like one beautiful block image. It's so intricate that I can't even find the start or end point :)  I just started calligraphy two weeks ago and am still feeling rather lost.  So I hope this post is making some sense?

Cheers,

Cherie

Hi Cherie,

You're asking the same question I did, in a way.  I think Ken's example and comments suggest one way--as I understand it, the flourish is a part of the letter and in the case of the second "L," the flourish is laid down at the beginning of drawing the letter, that is, before the stem. 

But I understand there are other ways of doing it: after the letter, and then, after the word or line or piece is completed, sometimes by even turning the paper, as is evidenced by the heavier shades you see sometimes that make no sense if you're looking at the piece straight on. 

Schin posted a little 5 word piece on IG yesterday that shows how most of the flourishes are part of the letter, while others appear to have been added after. 

My biggest challenge in all this flourishing is in allowing lines to cross.  I must've done that in elementary school and irked a nun.

Ohhh, similar memories of penmanship class in elementary :D Thanks, Milonguera! i really think I have to shift the way I perceive letters now that I'm doing calligraphy.  To see them actually as pictures instead of just mere phonetic symbols.  I get obsessive as I try to figure out the aesthetics to a word and how to make them intersect without making a mess.  Maybe I'll try things in pencil first then try adding flourishes after just so I can play around with the symmetry?
:) Cherie A.B.
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Offline Milonguera

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Re: Flourished "Calligraphy"
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2014, 10:06:33 AM »
Wow this is an inspiring piece.  I've always been fascinated by intricate flourishes but what I find rather daunting is figuring out where the flourish starts, and where it ends.  Someone already asked about when to flourish but I wonder about artful words and letters that seem to link to each other by their flourishes, yet look like one beautiful block image. It's so intricate that I can't even find the start or end point :)  I just started calligraphy two weeks ago and am still feeling rather lost.  So I hope this post is making some sense?

Cheers,

Cherie

Hi Cherie,

You're asking the same question I did, in a way.  I think Ken's example and comments suggest one way--as I understand it, the flourish is a part of the letter and in the case of the second "L," the flourish is laid down at the beginning of drawing the letter, that is, before the stem. 

But I understand there are other ways of doing it: after the letter, and then, after the word or line or piece is completed, sometimes by even turning the paper, as is evidenced by the heavier shades you see sometimes that make no sense if you're looking at the piece straight on. 

Schin posted a little 5 word piece on IG yesterday that shows how most of the flourishes are part of the letter, while others appear to have been added after. 

My biggest challenge in all this flourishing is in allowing lines to cross.  I must've done that in elementary school and irked a nun.

Ohhh, similar memories of penmanship class in elementary :D Thanks, Milonguera! i really think I have to shift the way I perceive letters now that I'm doing calligraphy.  To see them actually as pictures instead of just mere phonetic symbols.  I get obsessive as I try to figure out the aesthetics to a word and how to make them intersect without making a mess.  Maybe I'll try things in pencil first then try adding flourishes after just so I can play around with the symmetry?

From what I understand, Cherie, pencil is the way to go.  I'm in a new class and that's what we're using.  It's quite a discipline for me to step back and use a pencil because I'm pretty impatientI just want to get on with it, and, because the results are so different from using pen and ink.  But in the end, it's really helpful.  And so are whole-arm, warm up exercises.  The beginning of our first class was done on paper taped to a wall, and pencil.  We used our whole arm to do HUGE circles, ovals, loops, etc. for a couple of minutes before sitting down to do smaller exercises on paper at the tables.  It really helped me! 

One other thing I forgot to mention is that apparently some calligraphers don't only change the angle of the paper, but they also change the angle of their arm. 
Debbie

Offline themessycake

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Re: Flourished "Calligraphy"
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2014, 01:00:09 PM »
Wow this is an inspiring piece.  I've always been fascinated by intricate flourishes but what I find rather daunting is figuring out where the flourish starts, and where it ends.  Someone already asked about when to flourish but I wonder about artful words and letters that seem to link to each other by their flourishes, yet look like one beautiful block image. It's so intricate that I can't even find the start or end point :)  I just started calligraphy two weeks ago and am still feeling rather lost.  So I hope this post is making some sense?

Cheers,

Cherie

Hi Cherie,

You're asking the same question I did, in a way.  I think Ken's example and comments suggest one way--as I understand it, the flourish is a part of the letter and in the case of the second "L," the flourish is laid down at the beginning of drawing the letter, that is, before the stem. 

But I understand there are other ways of doing it: after the letter, and then, after the word or line or piece is completed, sometimes by even turning the paper, as is evidenced by the heavier shades you see sometimes that make no sense if you're looking at the piece straight on. 

Schin posted a little 5 word piece on IG yesterday that shows how most of the flourishes are part of the letter, while others appear to have been added after. 

My biggest challenge in all this flourishing is in allowing lines to cross.  I must've done that in elementary school and irked a nun.

Ohhh, similar memories of penmanship class in elementary :D Thanks, Milonguera! i really think I have to shift the way I perceive letters now that I'm doing calligraphy.  To see them actually as pictures instead of just mere phonetic symbols.  I get obsessive as I try to figure out the aesthetics to a word and how to make them intersect without making a mess.  Maybe I'll try things in pencil first then try adding flourishes after just so I can play around with the symmetry?

From what I understand, Cherie, pencil is the way to go.  I'm in a new class and that's what we're using.  It's quite a discipline for me to step back and use a pencil because I'm pretty impatientI just want to get on with it, and, because the results are so different from using pen and ink.  But in the end, it's really helpful.  And so are whole-arm, warm up exercises.  The beginning of our first class was done on paper taped to a wall, and pencil.  We used our whole arm to do HUGE circles, ovals, loops, etc. for a couple of minutes before sitting down to do smaller exercises on paper at the tables.  It really helped me! 

One other thing I forgot to mention is that apparently some calligraphers don't only change the angle of the paper, but they also change the angle of their arm.

This is totally making incredible sense! These things just never occurred to me before. I still have the tendency to move through calligraphy the way I would with ballpoint pen-penmanship. And, yes, just like you, I just want to get it over with.  Pencil? What's that??? :o So I should take it down a notch and change my groove.  I actually find changing my breathing helps, too.  But what I didn't foresee was a whole-arm movement.  I just did my first "embellished" lettering today with wobbly lines, of course. I was practicing over and over again figuring out how people did those superhuman smooth curves.  So I will try your arm advice and see if it makes a difference (which I'm certain it will). 

Your words have been VERY VERY helpful, really.  Thank you so much!!! Can't wait to try it out tomorrow and see :)
:) Cherie A.B.
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Offline Ken Fraser

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Re: Flourished "Calligraphy"
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2014, 05:57:45 PM »
My biggest challenge in all this flourishing is in allowing lines to cross. 

Two golden rules. If you look at the example I posted, you'll see that thick lines never cross thick lines. It's always thin across thick or thick across thin.
Secondly, the spaces should create an open, balanced, pleasing shape, This is achieved by crossing lines up as near to right angles as possible. You can also see this, in the flourished 'p'  in my signature (below).

Ken
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 06:01:12 PM by Ken Fraser »

Offline themessycake

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Re: Flourished "Calligraphy"
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2014, 02:35:37 AM »
My biggest challenge in all this flourishing is in allowing lines to cross. 

Two golden rules. If you look at the example I posted, you'll see that thick lines never cross thick lines. It's always thin across thick or thick across thin.
Secondly, the spaces should create an open, balanced, pleasing shape, This is achieved by crossing lines up as near to right angles as possible. You can also see this, in the flourished 'p'  in my signature (below).

Ken

Thanks so much Ken! I'm using your example flourish to train my eye, and to see letters as pictures more than mere symbols.  It's easier to understand in principle but when my hand starts to move, it's a different story altogether.  So I'm currently practicing how to come up with symmetrical and balanced spaces and put it together without creating a tangled mess :D

Cheers,

Cherie
:) Cherie A.B.
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