Author Topic: Calligraphy bar brawls  (Read 7037 times)

Offline Elisabeth_M

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Calligraphy bar brawls
« on: July 11, 2017, 09:52:19 AM »
Because I am a big science geek and former research scientist, I sometimes amuse myself by thinking of topics of controversy among scientists that might (if scientists were not generally introverts and not prone to be unathletic and nonviolent) lead to a all out down and dirty fight in a bar if everyone was drunk enough and someone got belligerent about whether or not viruses could be considered living things (for example). (I am maybe easily amused)

Recently, I turned my thoughts toward calligraphy and imagined the following scenario:

You and a group of calligraphy friends are having a friendly get together at your local dive bar.  You are all chatting, comparing ink stains on your fingers, discussing how to get sumi ink out of carpeting and what methods you use to keep your cats from walking all over your latest work when in walks a posse of rival calligraphers.  They sit at a table close enough to catch bits of their conversation, but not close enough that you bump chairs or have to walk directly past them on the way to the bathroom.  Mostly your two groups ignore each other. 

The evening progresses, several pitchers of cheap beer have been consumed, more calligraphers have joined each group and now your  groups are so large that members of each group are bumping chairs and getting in each other's way when going to the restroom which is happening more and more frequently as more and more cheap beer is consumed.  This causes some tension, but not much and everyone is still pretty friendly.  But then, it happens:  someone suggests doing shots.  Nobody is really sure who exactly suggested it, but both groups heard it and think it was someone from their pack who suggested shots and so both groups are now doing rounds of shots.  Tensions are rising.  People are becoming belligerent.  The bartender is starting look a little anxiously toward your tables and wondering if he should be taking bottles off the shelf and storing them under the bar for safety.  He's already cut all of you off after an ill-advised round of Jagermeister shots for both tables had both of your groups demanding to see the bottles of liquor so you could examine the typography.  Then, right at the point where both groups intersect, voices are raised.  It's not noticeable at first, but in less than a minute everyone in the bar can hear their argument and two or three of their nearest neighbors have joined the fray.  You look nervously at your friends and wonder if there is some way to diffuse the situation when one of the participants shouts something at the other and everyone's eyes meet and you all collectively think, "Them's fighting words."  As the combatants all rise to kick each other's shins (because nobody wants to hurt their hands by throwing punches), the bartender puts in a call to the local police and thinks, "That's the last time I serve shots to calligraphers."

So.

What was the cause of the argument?  What causes calligraphers to get their underwear in a bunch?

Two things that I can think of:  straight vs oblique and diluting ink with distilled water vs tap water.

What else?

(Note:  I am NOT trying to start any arguments or even discuss the merits of either side of the many and varied opposing viewpoints on techniques.  Rather, I mean only to draw some attention to and poke gentle fun at some of the mild controversies within the calligraphy community.)
Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge.  --Carl Sagan

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Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 11:03:10 AM »
As the combatants all rise to kick each other's shins (because nobody wants to hurt their hands by throwing punches)...

Absolutely hilarious! I was laughing out loud for real! OK, here are a few:

Engrossers v. Engravers v. Copperplate
match v. saliva v. windex
modern v. traditional (oh snap - hide the knives!)   ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Elisabeth_M

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2017, 12:31:04 PM »
As the combatants all rise to kick each other's shins (because nobody wants to hurt their hands by throwing punches)...
match v. saliva v. windex

Don't forget potatoes!  Oohhh, that would be a four-way brawl--chairs might get broken, in-fighting among members of the same calligraphy gang might even happen....
Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge.  --Carl Sagan

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Offline JohnNealBooks

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2017, 01:11:57 PM »
@Elisabeth_M thanks for the chuckle.  I have seen some drinking among calligraphers (at conferences) but luckily no violence!

Offline AndyT

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2017, 03:16:24 PM »
Art or craft?  ;)

Offline bleair

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2017, 03:20:02 AM »
Maybe this is entirely because I'm a newbie, but I can see one person saying how nib X is the greatest nib for pointed pen work ever and more experienced calligraphers giving "shoosh now looks" but other newbies joining in and then quickly bottles are being broken on the edges of tables..

Or, a tension I've seen for real... in some circles there is this never quite stated notion that there is "real calligraphy" as in everything you see from Europe vs. those darn upstarts in American talking about Spencerian and Ornamental penmansip and off-hand flourishing, which while lovely is by no means actual calligraphy in the proper use of the word.

Offline Estefa

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2017, 05:44:02 AM »
Or, a tension I've seen for real... in some circles there is this never quite stated notion that there is "real calligraphy" as in everything you see from Europe vs. those darn upstarts in American talking about Spencerian and Ornamental penmansip and off-hand flourishing, which while lovely is by no means actual calligraphy in the proper use of the word.

That's the first thing I thought of … the goold old broad versus pointed pen battle ;D
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Offline Elisabeth_M

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2017, 09:15:14 AM »
Art or craft?  ;)

That's a dangerous one since it'd pull in the knitters who were sitting in the corner and they've got pointy sticks!
Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge.  --Carl Sagan

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Offline Elisabeth_M

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2017, 09:28:43 AM »
Maybe this is entirely because I'm a newbie, but I can see one person saying how nib X is the greatest nib for pointed pen work ever and more experienced calligraphers giving "shoosh now looks" but other newbies joining in and then quickly bottles are being broken on the edges of tables..

Speaking of nibs.....modern nibs vs vintage

Quote
Or, a tension I've seen for real...

I think I've seen tension for real with many of these arguments, which is why I wanted to take a step back and have a little fun with it because, at the end of the day, if calligraphy ceases to be fun, then why are we doing it?  Of course it's a job for some people, but it's one that I hope they started because they enjoyed it. 

Quote
in some circles there is this never quite stated notion that there is "real calligraphy" as in everything you see from Europe vs. those darn upstarts in American talking about Spencerian and Ornamental penmansip and off-hand flourishing, which while lovely is by no means actual calligraphy in the proper use of the word.

*giggle* I kinda hope America is always thought of as "those upstarts" by Europeans.  I like to think of them looking at us with sort of a mixture of fondness and irritation, like you might view a really cute, over-enthusiastic Great Dane puppy who just chewed up your shoe but is so happy to see you, it's hard to be too angry with it, and then, because it's huge, knocks you over and slobbers on your face and you don't know if you should laugh or cry, but you're pretty sure you should kennel it until it learns some manners.
Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge.  --Carl Sagan

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Offline AnasaziWrites

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2017, 11:08:17 AM »
Now, a man must know his limitations, and bring the appropriate equipment to the discussion.

Offline Elisabeth_M

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2017, 09:13:50 AM »
Now, a man must know his limitations, and bring the appropriate equipment to the discussion.

Are they....pens?  'Cuz it's bad form to bring a knife or a gun to a shin-kicking fight.  I think?  I'm not sure I know the etiquette on this one.
Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge.  --Carl Sagan

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Offline AnasaziWrites

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2017, 09:52:30 AM »

Are they....pens?  'Cuz it's bad form to bring a knife or a gun to a shin-kicking fight.  I think?  I'm not sure I know the etiquette on this one.
Perhaps you have not enlarged the photo (by clicking on it) to see just what these are?

Offline Tasmith

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2017, 03:43:20 PM »
They have types of nibs Photoshopped on them?
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Offline Elisabeth_M

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2017, 02:02:39 AM »
They have types of nibs Photoshopped on them?

Aha!  See, I knew I was missing something!  Even after enlarging the picture, I completely skimmed over the writing, looking at the structures and trying to figure out what the trick was.   :)
Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge.  --Carl Sagan

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Offline bleair

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Re: Calligraphy bar brawls
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2017, 11:21:06 PM »
lol. Aha, I totally missed that... I just read "chilled steel", and I didn't recognize the first name... just assumed it was some boutique revolver maker.  :)

Now I have to lookup Mark Ferth Chilled Steel... Awesome.
Given that the Hunt name is on the knife I think I have a clear idea of which nib you prefer. :) :)