Author Topic: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs  (Read 4096 times)

Offline AmyNeub

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Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« on: January 19, 2015, 10:05:18 PM »
Iron gall users:

I am noticing a difference in my Old World iron gall, from my McCaffertys iron gall. Basically it is way more acidic. My Zebra G's and Prince Lenny's (Principals) are dropping like flies after two days. John gave me a hint to wash it thoroughly before sending it to rest for the night with windex. That didn't seem to help.

Has anyone had this happen? Do you know the least acid of the iron gall brands? I read on Schin's blog about Walkers, but it's across the Atlantic, so I guess I could try that out.

Any help would be great. Thanks in advance.

Offline Moya

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2015, 10:13:13 PM »
My jar of Old World is definitely more acidic than my McCaffrey's - I only have the two to compare.  But I also like it more ... I'm not sure why, I just love it.  So I stock up on nibs instead ;)

Offline schin

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2015, 10:33:27 PM »
Yes.. Old World is pretty acidic, especially on the Principals.. I believe Walkers is actually non-acidic, and I find it works really well and is my favorite iron gall.. too bad it's so hard to get! :(
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Offline Brad franklin

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2015, 10:37:45 PM »
I received old world for Christmas. And it seems to eat my principals a lot faster. But like everyone said there going to fail eventually. Always have more nibs on hand.

Offline AndyT

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2015, 06:00:36 AM »
I believe Walkers is actually non-acidic, and I find it works really well and is my favorite iron gall.. too bad it's so hard to get! :(

Don't know about that ... you know the blue finish on modern Gillott nibs?  It takes that off nicely.  But it's definitely milder than Blots.

Iron gall inks for fountain pens will be fairly benign and they all seem to do well with dip pens too.  Pelikan 4001 blue-black and Rohrer und Kligner Salix (blue-black) and Scabiosa (dark dusty purple) are probably going to be the easiest to get hold of.  The blackest one I've come across is Akkerman Ijzer Galnoten but supply to the US is intermittent.

Offline Blotbot

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2015, 10:54:07 AM »
Has anyone reached a conclusion on how the newer titanium nibs react to iron gall ink?

Offline AmyNeub

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2015, 11:43:12 AM »
I would love to try my titanium zebra g, but they are on back order.

Offline schin

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2015, 01:25:24 PM »
AndyT: I could have sworn Brian Walker told me there was no acid in it, but I must have misunderstood as I experience the same as you with that ink. I didn't know Pelikan 4001 blueblack was iron gall!

Amy: I'll send you one!

Blotbot: My first titanium Z died yesterday.. it got all scratchy and weird, but I was using all kinds of ink with it..
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Offline Brad franklin

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2015, 01:27:25 PM »
AndyT: I could have sworn Brian Walker told me there was no acid in it, but I must have misunderstood as I experience the same as you with that ink. I didn't know Pelikan 4001 blueblack was iron gall!

Amy: I'll send you one!

Blotbot: My first titanium Z died yesterday.. it got all scratchy and weird, but I was using all kinds of ink with it..
Schin so how long did you get out of it?

Offline Brad franklin

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2015, 01:30:58 PM »
I believe Walkers is actually non-acidic, and I find it works really well and is my favorite iron gall.. too bad it's so hard to get! :(

Don't know about that ... you know the blue finish on modern Gillott nibs?  It takes that off nicely.  But it's definitely milder than Blots.

Iron gall inks for fountain pens will be fairly benign and they all seem to do well with dip pens too.  Pelikan 4001 blue-black and Rohrer und Kligner Salix (blue-black) and Scabiosa (dark dusty purple) are probably going to be the easiest to get hold of.  The blackest one I've come across is Akkerman Ijzer Galnoten but supply to the US is intermittent.

Yasutomo Sumi takes that blue off my Gillott 303 as well.

Offline AndyT

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2015, 02:06:28 PM »
Schin - this from Brian:

"To maintain the acidic pH level of the ink, the odd drop of lemon juice (or vinegar) may be occasionally added ..."

which suggests that it's acidic in the first place.  The chemistry is quite involved but as far as I can make out an IG ink depends for its action on the presence of a gallic acid of one sort or another.

As for Pelikan 4001 BB apparently it has a fairly small IG component, but it's there.  Hope they don't reformulate it (like Lamy and Montblanc did with theirs) in response to scare stories about IG ink eating pens.

Offline AmyNeub

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2015, 10:36:59 PM »
My nibs showed up, thank you John Neal, my practice has been taken to an all time level with Harvest's Spencerian class. We are learning caps at one inch. I am also going to plant some trees at my parents with the paper I am going through.

Thanks for thinking of me Schin, maybe save it for yourself.

Andy I have Pelikan Brilliant Black here, but not the blue black. Does that mean I need to add a drop of lemon juice to my IG? Or would that make it worse. I am not a chemist.

Thanks for all your help. I guess I will buy some Walker, or stick with McCaffertys, since I can't afford to buy a new nib everyday.

Offline AndyT

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2015, 04:04:14 AM »
Hi Amy,

It's only the Pelikan blue-black which has an iron gall component, in fact the only IG fountain pen ink which isn't BB is Scabiosa so far as I'm aware.  (I made my head swim reading up on the chemistry of all this last night and probably understood one word in ten, but apparently it's the "iron-bluing" tannins which make the ink permanent, so maybe that's why).  The benefit of adding lemon juice is that the ink will strike into the paper surface more effectively, but it'll doubtless make it more corrosive if anything.  But if you're going through a nib a day, that sounds more like fair wear and tear to me than corrosion, especially if you're working on Spencerian capitals.

I have another tentative suggestion for you, and I'm fairly confident that Schin will agree with me on this one.  If you buy the Walker Copperplate Ink (and it's every bit as good as people say), also buy a bottle or two of Roberson's Penman Classical Transparent and try that for practice.  It's a non waterproof ink which flows in much the same way as an iron gall, but won't eat nibs.  Schin got one of the reddish colours and liked it; ditto for me with the black.  Scribblers stock both Walker's and Roberson ... the only other place to get the former is Penman Direct but ordering is less straightforward.

Offline Estefa

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2015, 04:11:02 AM »
Amy, I use for practice nearly only walnut ink, also because I like my vintage nibs and want them to last longer!! I think it's absolutely ok for practice, in fact I find it lovely all over; except when you want to impress someone with extra fine hairlines ;D. Just my humble opinion.

The Rohrer & Klingner inks Andy mentioned are also much less corrosive than the McCaffrey's (which is the only American iron gall ink I know, but it's very similar to the one I buy from a Swiss calligrapher).
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Offline schin

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Re: Best iron gall that doesn't eat nibs
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2015, 07:24:50 PM »
I have another tentative suggestion for you, and I'm fairly confident that Schin will agree with me on this one.  If you buy the Walker Copperplate Ink (and it's every bit as good as people say), also buy a bottle or two of Roberson's Penman Classical Transparent and try that for practice.  It's a non waterproof ink which flows in much the same way as an iron gall, but won't eat nibs.  Schin got one of the reddish colours and liked it; ditto for me with the black.  Scribblers stock both Walker's and Roberson ... the only other place to get the former is Penman Direct but ordering is less straightforward.

Indeed! Scribblers has cool inks that the US stores don't have. If you're gonna buy from them, throw in some more inks and see.. and yes I liked the Roberson's ink too.
I did an iron gall comparison on my blog here: https://openinkstand.wordpress.com/2014/12/03/pointed-pen-calligraphy-101-iron-gall-ink-comparison/
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