Newbie Here: Anyone work with Acrylic or India Ink? Also any thoughts on Inkcage

[vonking1980]

I am so missing my computer screen right now!! Anyway, I'm brand new to calligraphy, and of course in my excitement of wanting to dive right in, I went to the craft store and bought a Speedball holder, nibs, and some Speedball acrylic ink. I also purchased some India ink. I have transitioned to an oblique holder and work between the Nikko G (with Inkcage )and Hunt 101. As I've been practicing, I'm having issues with the transition from a downstroke to a light/hairline upstroke. Unless I turn my nib slightly on an edge, which I've read here it'll wear out one of the tines faster, I have a nice blob of ink dragging into the curve and there's barely any contrast from the downstroke/upstroke. I do lift my pen where it barely, sometime doesn't touch the page, but there's a lot of ink and it just drags through. I'm thinking:

A) I have too much ink on the pen in general
B) Wrong type of ink
C) Beginner error and just need to practice
D) Wrong angle?
E) All of the above

Before I rush out and buy even more stuff that I may or may not need, I guess my question is, would the ink affect writing in that way?  Also, has anyone had any experience with the inkcage system?
I truly appreciate any help and advice!

[Bianca M]

Are you having this problem with multiple nibs?  What kind of paper are you using?

[ericp]

You are asking many questions, let me just address the acrylic question.

There are many many threads on ink type on FF.  To summarize, your best bet is sumi ink.

For jobs in color, gouache has also its fans.  For instance I really love gouache and watercolor ink.   I did try acrylic and honestly it has many many drawbacks (once again, you can search for that on FF) and its main positive side is some waterproofness.

Therefore if you are beginning, stick to the classic combination of Nikko G and sumi.   As you move forward, you'll be able to appreciate the experts here debating far and wide about the virtues of Pearl Ex pigments, etc etc etc   (So much to learn, so little time...)

Good luck and have fun!

[vonking1980]

Are you having this problem with multiple nibs?  What kind of paper are you using?

It's with both the Nikko G and Hunt 101. It's probably not helping that I get frustrated, switch, then switch back. I tried the Georgia Pacific multipurpose today but have been using Canson tracing paper and it still does it. After reading through the forum, I think I'm going to get some good laser jet paper this weekend. Do you think that'll help? Thank you for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.

[vonking1980]

You are asking many questions, let me just address the acrylic question.

There are many many threads on ink type on FF.  To summarize, your best bet is sumi ink.

For jobs in color, gouache has also its fans.  For instance I really love gouache and watercolor ink.   I did try acrylic and honestly it has many many drawbacks (once again, you can search for that on FF) and its main positive side is some waterproofness.

Therefore if you are beginning, stick to the classic combination of Nikko G and sumi.   As you move forward, you'll be able to appreciate the experts here debating far and wide about the virtues of Pearl Ex pigments, etc etc etc   (So much to learn, so little time...)

Good luck and have fun!

Thank you so much for your help! There is definitely a wealth of information here. I'm still working on navigation through the forum. I'll try another search; I may be doing too broad of one.  But it sounds like sumi is the way to go for now.
Thanks again!

Edited: Just did another search, but this time on the main page and found what you were talking about. It came up with no results the first time, but got it now. I appreciate you taking time to help!

[jeanwilson]

The *classic* combo that I recommend for beginners is Nikko G and McCaffrey's ink,
and I prefer Rhodia or Clairfontaine paper. I've never found any of the office supply papers that feel right.
This is the combo that Michael Sull recommended years ago. I am not sure if he has changed.

Do not get the glossy black McCaffrey's, it can have a hard time drying.
McCaffrey's has a thinner look which some people do not care for.

There is a learning curve on gouache, but it's dreamy. Holbein's Acryla is a cool combo that is a little more waterproof than regular gouache. I'd wait on gouache until you get some ink that's working for you.

Ziller inks are acrylic and is the only brand of acrylic ink that ever worked for me.

McCaffrey's and Ziller are available from John Neal Books.

They also sell dry powder/crystals to make your own walnut ink which can be delightful for beginners.

Your description of blobbing almost sounds like the nib has not been prepared.
Most of my students who use the Nikko-McCaffrey-Rhodia combo seem to make good progress.

[jeanwilson]

I just re-read - that you have the Canson tracing paper.
That paper should be fine.
I'd try different ink with that paper.

[AndyT]

My experience with acrylic ink has been poor: lousy hairlines.  So to my mind that's suggestive.  Walnut ink is a good, inexpensive option for practice or when waterproofness is not a consideration.

However, my first thought was about the paper, and although the Canson is not something I've tried it's highly likely that you could do better.  Probably the easiest choice in terms of availability would be a pad of Rhodia, or else Clairefontaine Triomphe, both of which should be easy enough to track down in the US.  Goulet Pens certainly stocks both.  Edit: okay, if Jean says the Canson is okay, that's fine.

Regarding the Inkcage, the chap who makes and markets them is a member here and there was a fairly informative thread a while ago.  It's something that you could happily get away without, but which might make life easier in certain situations - writing heavily shaded copperplate or flourishing, say.  For textbook Spencerian there really is no need for a reservoir.

[AnasaziWrites]

The *classic* combo that I recommend for beginners is Nikko G and McCaffrey's ink,

I second that recommendation. Worked great for me when I started out.

and I prefer Rhodia or Clairfontaine paper. I've never found any of the office supply papers that feel right.
This is the combo that Michael Sull recommended years ago. I am not sure if he has changed.

I think he still recommends this combo. One office paper I've found to work is Staples fine laser paper, 25% cotton. Much cheaper also.

Do not get the glossy black McCaffrey's, it can have a hard time drying.

I second that as well. I once received a glossy black by error, ruined a bunch of envelopes because I did not realize it was taking so much longer than normal to dry, and ruined a bottle of regular black when I mixed the two.

McCaffrey's has a thinner look which some people do not care for.

I love the look--incredible thins are possible.

[vonking1980]

The *classic* combo that I recommend for beginners is Nikko G and McCaffrey's ink,
and I prefer Rhodia or Clairfontaine paper. I've never found any of the office supply papers that feel right.
This is the combo that Michael Sull recommended years ago. I am not sure if he has changed.

Do not get the glossy black McCaffrey's, it can have a hard time drying.
McCaffrey's has a thinner look which some people do not care for.

There is a learning curve on gouache, but it's dreamy. Holbein's Acryla is a cool combo that is a little more waterproof than regular gouache. I'd wait on gouache until you get some ink that's working for you.

Ziller inks are acrylic and is the only brand of acrylic ink that ever worked for me.

McCaffrey's and Ziller are available from John Neal Books.

They also sell dry powder/crystals to make your own walnut ink which can be delightful for beginners.

Your description of blobbing almost sounds like the nib has not been prepared.
Most of my students who use the Nikko-McCaffrey-Rhodia combo seem to make good progress.

Thank you so much Jean. Definitely going to also give the McCaffery ink a try as it sounds like exactly what I'm looking for, for getting the thinner lines. I might just have to get a few different ones that were suggested and see which one works best for me.

In the mean time,  I'll do some research tonight for the Rhodia paper; that has been suggested a lot throughout here. I guess if I'm going to get serious about this, I may as well do it right And follow your suggestion about prepping the nib. Thanks a million!

[vonking1980]

My experience with acrylic ink has been poor: lousy hairlines.  So to my mind that's suggestive.  Walnut ink is a good, inexpensive option for practice or when waterproofness is not a consideration.

However, my first thought was about the paper, and although the Canson is not something I've tried it's highly likely that you could do better.  Probably the easiest choice in terms of availability would be a pad of Rhodia, or else Clairefontaine Triomphe, both of which should be easy enough to track down in the US.  Goulet Pens certainly stocks both.  Edit: okay, if Jean says the Canson is okay, that's fine.

Regarding the Inkcage, the chap who makes and markets them is a member here and there was a fairly informative thread a while ago.  It's something that you could happily get away without, but which might make life easier in certain situations - writing heavily shaded copperplate or flourishing, say.  For textbook Spencerian there really is no need for a reservoir.

Thank you for taking time out to respond. You are right. As I mentioned to Jean, I'm just going to get the correct paper. There's certain things that can be "worked around", but I don't think this is one of them, especially as a beginner.

Inkcage has been nice when doing drills, but my hand gets tired. I'm thinking, when is it going to run out?!

[Bianca M]

I agree with most everything that has been said above. I do really love the HP Premium Choice paper.  It's important to note that not all laser papers will perform well.  I print guidelines right onto the HP and it's my current favorite practice paper, but I do also love Rhodia (still haven't tried Clairefontaine- my loss).  Canson marker layout is wonderful (expensive for practice, though), but I haven't tried ink with their tracing paper. I suspect the results are quite different.  Anyway, the right paper and ink will fix you right up! 

I suggest also reading up on Sumi inks, as there are SO many, and some are as wonderful for pointed pens as others are terrible for it.  I like Moon Palace and today am using Sumi Best, which I bought on a whim.  Anyhow, I think there's a thread on here full of helpful Sumi opinions - maybe I can find it. Or stick with McCaffrey's for now so you have a simple, no-fuss solution.

No matter what, be sure to prep your nib, as Jean mentioned.  Make sure your ink does not bead up at all on both sides of the nib.

[vonking1980]

First off, thank you everyone for answering my post. You guys have been a huge help. This is an amazing community.

Secondly, I'm not sure I've done replies correctly, so I'm sorry if I've annoyed anyone.

 

The *classic* combo that I recommend for beginners is Nikko G and McCaffrey's ink,

I second that recommendation. Worked great for me when I started out.

and I prefer Rhodia or Clairfontaine paper. I've never found any of the office supply papers that feel right.
This is the combo that Michael Sull recommended years ago. I am not sure if he has changed.

I think he still recommends this combo. One office paper I've found to work is Staples fine laser paper, 25% cotton. Much cheaper also.

Do not get the glossy black McCaffrey's, it can have a hard time drying.

I second that as well. I once received a glossy black by error, ruined a bunch of envelopes because I did not realize it was taking so much longer than normal to dry, and ruined a bottle of regular black when I mixed the two.

McCaffrey's has a thinner look which some people do not care for.

I love the look--incredible thins are possible.

Thanks! Glad to hear a vote for the laser paper. I do want something cost efficient for doing drills. Sounds like I have a few things to order this weekend 

[vonking1980]

I agree with most everything that has been said above. I do really love the HP Premium Choice paper.  It's important to note that not all laser papers will perform well.  I print guidelines right onto the HP and it's my current favorite practice paper, but I do also love Rhodia (still haven't tried Clairefontaine- my loss).  Canson marker layout is wonderful (expensive for practice, though), but I haven't tried ink with their tracing paper. I suspect the results are quite different.  Anyway, the right paper and ink will fix you right up! 

I suggest also reading up on Sumi inks, as there are SO many, and some are as wonderful for pointed pens as others are terrible for it.  I like Moon Palace and today am using Sumi Best, which I bought on a whim.  Anyhow, I think there's a thread on here full of helpful Sumi opinions - maybe I can find it. Or stick with McCaffrey's for now so you have a simple, no-fuss solution.

No matter what, be sure to prep your nib, as Jean mentioned.  Make sure your ink does not bead up at all on both sides of the nib.

I have a lot of reading and research to do I believe. Thank you  for your help and input, Bianca. I didn't realize there was also a difference in Sumi inks also.
Toothpaste method should be fine, right? Or is there a better method?

[Bianca M]

There are lots of methods to prep, and everyone has their favorite method.  Dish soap, windex, flames (careful! 3 seconds and stop!), saliva (my personal favorite), baby wipes... the list goes on.  Just be careful with those tines- you don't want to damage them by scrubbing too hard or squeezing.  Or overheating.