Sources of ink (Sumi and Walnut) in UK?

[albscribe]

Anyone know where i may be able to buy Sumi or Walnut ink in the UK (online) please? I believe these are both very good inks for beginners so I would like some to use for my Spencerian practice.

If it matters I am using Clairefontaine Premium Extra smooth multi purpose 80g paper.

[tintenfuchs]

Hi!
Lookie, here's a thread about getting supplies in Europe: http://theflourishforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=2200.0;topicseen

[ash0kgiri]

I believe these are both very good inks for beginners so I would like some to use for my Spencerian practice.

Hi @albscribe,

When I started I used to use Sumi Ink before I got introduced to Walnut ink. Now my sumi ink bottle are lying in some corner.
Problem I faced is Sumi ink reduces your nib life as the nib rust in a very short time. Im sure there is a way to prevent it, but walnut is not a problem at all. So I would recommend Walnut over Sumi. And also its much much cheaper.

You should also see @AndyT walnut crystal link and you easily get them in UK.

- Ashok

[prasad]

paging @AndyT   

I don't know anything about Sumi, I am sure the link above will help.  For Walnut crystals you have to try the Van Dyke Crystals.  Andy has sung praises of it for ages on here and they are cheap.

https://www.restexpress.co.uk/acatalog/Liberon_Van_Dyke_Crystals.html

You are lucky you are in the UK.  I have been trying to get my hands on this for over a year and finally got some.  Will be arriving in my hands end September.  I cannot tell you how well they work as I have not tried it,  but it has received great praises from Andy. 

happy Writing
Prasad

[AndyT]

Yes, we do okay for Vandyke crystals in the UK, but the sumi situation isn't so happy.  Kuretake is easy enough to find (Blots and Scribblers both stock it) but doesn't seem to be especially popular with calligraphers.  The much praised Moon Palace and the vermilion sumi Schin uses are only intermittently available, but it looks like there's some stock at Amazon right now.  Most of the calligraphers' supply houses stock ink sticks and grinding stones, however (that would be the enduring influence of Edward Johnston, no doubt) - if you want the good stuff Scribblers, Cornelissen and Penman Direct would be my first ports of call, not necessarily in that order.

A couple of other inks which are particularly suitable for Spencerian: Blots or Walker's iron gall inks, and Roberson's Transparent.  The latter gets no attention at all or so it seems, but it's excellent.  What I would avoid at all costs is acrylic ink, with the possible exception of Ziller.

[melanie jane]

I use these walnut ink crystals and they work well.  I haven't yet got the exact mix of water to crystals right - I just mix a lot into a big jar of water.  Once the solution is at it's saturation point, the rest of the walnut crystals drop to the bottom of the jar so, as long as I don't dip my nib in to the bottom, I'm fine. 

[albscribe]

Thank you very much guys for the very helpful replies. The VanDyke crystals sound like the ost economical ones considering that I am in practicing stages. I've had a look at the Roberson's Transparent and I am quite impressed with the variety of colours on offer. I might buy a few bottles to use for various projects once I have "mastered" Spencerian.

[albscribe]

Out of curiosity, how long will a 250g bag of crystals last me? Or should i say, how much (roughly) ink will it provide?

[AndyT]

Right then, since you asked ...

Vandyke crystals form a saturated solution at a rate of 1g to 13ml.  (Use more and they'll precipitate out as Melanie Jane describes).  Therefore, the minimum quantity of fully saturated ink you'll get is ... wait for it ...  3¼ litres, or a generous 5½ pints.  I go for 1g:15ml, which still gives a strong ink but simplifies the arithmetic, so that would be 3¾ litres / a bit more than 6½ pints / 5 wine bottles.

How long will that last?  Approximately one complete and unabridged copperplate edition of the works of Dickens, I should think, provided you don't write too big.   

[albscribe]

Right then, since you asked ...

Vandyke crystals form a saturated solution at a rate of 1g to 13ml.  (Use more and they'll precipitate out as Melanie Jane describes).  Therefore, the minimum quantity of fully saturated ink you'll get is ... wait for it ...  3¼ litres, or a generous 5½ pints.  I go for 1g:15ml, which still gives a strong ink but simplifies the arithmetic, so that would be 3¾ litres / a bit more than 6½ pints / 5 wine bottles.

How long will that last?  Approximately one complete and unabridged copperplate edition of the works of Dickens, I should think, provided you don't write too big.   

Mother of god.  There is enough there to last the whole family a lifetime. It's a good job that one of my other hobbies is woodwork. Might use some of it to stain some oak

[ash0kgiri]

Vandyke crystals form a saturated solution at a rate of 1g to 13ml.  (Use more and they'll precipitate out as Melanie Jane describes).  Therefore, the minimum quantity of fully saturated ink you'll get is ... wait for it ...  3¼ litres, or a generous 5½ pints.  I go for 1g:15ml, which still gives a strong ink but simplifies the arithmetic, so that would be 3¾ litres / a bit more than 6½ pints / 5 wine bottles.

@AndyT, Curious question. If you make this in large quantity and store it would the colour intensity or quality will be effected over the period of time?

Thanks,
Ashok

[AndyT]

Interesting question, Ashok.

Speaking hypothetically and off the top of my head, my instinctive feeling is that it would probably last well if treated like wine: put into sterilised bottles and kept in a cool, dark place.  Light is the enemy of pigments as we all know, but fungal growths are more worrying - hence the sterile containers.  It would be tempting to add a mould inhibitor of some sort, the obvious one being alcohol.  We have a few people with real expertise about this sort of thing here: @Elisabeth_M who has written about preventing nasty growths in ink, and @Milonguera who can be found scavenging for walnuts at this time of year for ink-making purposes.  I believe she likes a splash of the hard stuff in hers.

Of course, one of the advantages of crystals over walnuts is that you don't have to make and store large quantities.  My practice has been to use 2g of crystals to 30g of water in a small glass beaker and decant it into a 30ml bottle.  Digital scales are handy for this, but hardly essential: the attached pic shows a weighed gram in an ordinary teaspoon.

[ash0kgiri]

Thanks Andy for this wonderful explanation. Appreciate your time.

-Ashok

[Milonguera]

Hi AndyT, Ashok ash0kgiri and all my fellow scribblers.  Andy knows firsthand that I have indeed gathered fallen black walnuts and made walnut ink from scratch.  I did that 2 years ago then gathered nuts last year but never made the ink.  It was fun the first time though, and I highly recommend it.  It had an earthy aroma when all was said and done.  But for all the bother (and mold) I'm enjoying crystals, too. 

I don't know if the crystals you can get here in the States from either John Neal Books, or Paper and Ink Arts are "VanDyke" crystals or something else.  Andy sent me some VanDyke crystals a while back and I made up a batch and it seems much the same as what I bought domestically. As already noted, a tiny bit of the crystals goes a looooooong way. 

As for mold, the 'natural' stuff definitely got funky after sitting a while, even though I layered alcohol on top.  But one of our guild members here in Atlanta is a professional baker for 30-4- years.  She turned me on to Calcium Propionate, a substance used to prevent mold from growing on bread.  Years ago she decided to try it in ink and has had success.  It's available online from Amazon or eBay and like VanDyke crystals, a tiny bit goes a long way.  The one thing I'm not sure about is if it changes the color of the ink--when she mentioned the stuff, it was about sumi ink. 

One thing most experienced calligraphers recommend for inks prone to mold is decanting into smaller containers or dinky dips.  Of course you want to either pour or use a sterile eyedropper when going into the mother bottle. 

While we're talking about ink, no-one has mentioned McCaffery's Penman's Inks which come in a variety of colors.  The classic Black is an oak gall ink and will indeed attack your nibs but the look is worth it.  They're delightfully watery like walnut ink, make beautiful hairlines, and some of his most recent formulas for the colors, one of which is a brown similar to walnut, come with the added pleasure of having a mild fragrance of cloves.  Because of their translucence and fragrance, these inks have become my favorites when being waterproof is not a requirement.

I hope this helps! 

[AndyT]

Hi Debbie! 

As far as I know McCaffrey's isn't available from any UK stockist, although I'd be delighted to be proved wrong on that one.  Anyway, assuming that's the case and given the state of Sterling at the moment, the cost of shipping and the chance of incurring customs charges even on relatively modest orders, now is probably not the best time to import.  The Walker's ink mentioned above is a pretty close equivalent to McCaffrey's black (Blots is more like Old World, apparently), whilst Roberson's Transparent is a potential substitute for the coloured inks albeit without the scent.  Oddly, if you Google "McCaffrey's ink UK", the first link takes you to Scribbler's Roberson page, perhaps because their range is also called "Penman".

I still have some of yours, by the way, and it's not funky.  More like earthy and faintly alcoholic.