Author Topic: Curse you English language  (Read 1902 times)

Offline Elisabeth_M

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Curse you English language
« on: July 22, 2017, 05:03:06 PM »
My daughter will be in kindergarten next year and we have been working on letters and sounds and spelling simple words.  Generally, she has little interest in the subject unless it leads to something immediately applicable (she only started reliably recognizing X and the sound it makes when I pointed out Exit signs on doors, which has led to me never being able to go in an exit ever again because, "that's the exit, mommy!").  She definitely prefers to mess around with numbers over letters.  Sometimes she gets excited over letters and she recently got excited about spelling numbers and brought to my attention the fact that, "Four starts with F and so does five!"  I encouraged her to consider if other numbers started with F which led her to exclaim, "Two starts with T!  Six starts with S!" and I was getting really excited over her excitement until...

"One starts with Y!"

Noooooooooo!!!

With heavy heart, I had to explain that the number one does not start with Y (or even W, and we had to have a review which sounds Y and W make) and that was the end of her enthusiasm for the subject and I reflected that this sort of thing wouldn't happen if we spoke something sensible, like Italian or Spanish.  *sigh*
Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge.  --Carl Sagan

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Offline Erica McPhee

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Re: Curse you English language
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2017, 06:07:55 PM »
English is SOOOO hard isn't it?! I love the connections she is making though. When I homeschooled, we used a program called All About Spelling and I learned so many tricks and rules I never knew about the English language before! I found myself wishing I had had that curriculum when I was a kid. While kids today can use spellcheck, it was so helpful in terms of comprehension as well and why things are the way they are.

If you visit that link, there is a free guide you can download called, "How to Make Spelling Easy" which includes some logical tips, etc.

Have fun! Oh and two of my kids learned to read with the "Dick and Jane" primers we used as kids. They really did work!
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Offline Elisabeth_M

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Re: Curse you English language
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2017, 10:27:11 AM »
Thanks, Erica!  I will definitely check that out.  We have been using Starfall, but it has both math and reading programs and games and she always goes to the math ones if she has a choice.  Which I love, because math was never fun for me, but she's a little behind her Montessori classmates (she started in the 3-K class just last year, so she's playing catch-up) and her teacher specifically asked that we work on letters and sounds and building simple three letter words (consonant-vowel-consonant) over the summer.  We also have the BOB books which are great but she still really only absorbs things if they have immediate use in making her more independent.  For instance, she wanted me to draw a stop sign for her because she wanted one in her picture and she couldn't remember what they looked like. I insisted she look through some books to see if she could find a picture of a stop sign for a reference so she could make it herself (research skills!), and when that didn't work, I took her to google image search, but I made her try to type the word "stop" into the search box by sounding it out.  It didn't take her long and she immediately got what she needed (yay, reinforcement!).  So, yeah, if she really needs it, or wants it, she'll work for it, but the thought that she could read books all by herself isn't exciting enough to make her work toward learning to read.

Y and W are sticking points for her because when you say the letter Y, you use the W sound.  I'm going to start using the French name for Y ("ee-grek") just to try to break the association between Y and the "wuh" sound.

I took Italian in college, and while my accent is abysmal, I loved it more than studying French in high school because, unlike French, in Italian, the look of the word and the way you pronounce it are the same--there are no letters that aren't pronounced (the exception might be h after the letters c and g, but it's there to modify the pronunciation of c and g, so that gives it a purpose).  You even have to pronounce both letters in a double letter combination (that is, both p's and c's in cappuccino--it takes awhile to get the hang of it, you have to kind of stop in the middle of pronouncing the letter).
Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge.  --Carl Sagan

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Offline Hieronymous

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Re: Curse you English language
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2017, 04:54:41 AM »
Yes, the English language is a tricky one, especially if it isn't your native tongue. I once knew a Swiss guy who spoke fluent English and pointed out different words with pretty much the same meaning and he said it's what gives the language it's colour.

There is a poem pointing out the vagaries of the English language which I'll see if I can find. I think it was written by a Dane of all people!

Offline Hieronymous

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Re: Curse you English language
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2017, 05:05:15 AM »
I found it! Also my apologies it wasn't a Dane it was a Dutchman.

by Dr. Gerard Nolst Trenité
(Netherlands, 1870-1946)

Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.
Pray, console your loving poet,
Make my coat look new, dear, sew it!

Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
Exiles, similes, and reviles;
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far;
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
Scene, Melpomene, mankind.

Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward.
And your pronunciation's OK
When you correctly say croquet,
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.

Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
And then singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.

Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
Job, nob, bosom, transom, oath.
Though the differences seem little,
We say actual but victual.
Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
Dull, bull, and George ate late.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific.

Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the differences, moreover,
Between mover, cover, clover;
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice;
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.

Petal, panel, and canal,
Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor.
Tour, but our and succour, four.
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, Korea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion and battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
Heron, granary, canary.
Crevice and device and aerie.

Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation -- think of Psyche!
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It's a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.

Finally, which rhymes with enough --
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give up!!!

Offline Hieronymous

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Re: Curse you English language
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2017, 02:37:56 AM »
I must confess that I've always been puzzled as to why Kansas is pronounced as written but yet Arkansas is pronounced 'Arkansaw'.