Calligraphy Layouts and Formatting.

[The.SardaarJi]

Good Morning Everyone

I am hoping everyone is good and in high spirits.

I am working with Calligraphy layouts and formatting this week. I have tried to do some  *Fancy* formatting to a Calligraphy quote, but the output was quote crappy ( I admit that my Calligraphy is not so good, but the output seems more crappy then that ) .

It would be great , if someone can help with suggestion, materials, some calligraphy formatting, ideas so that we can all can get befits from it..

Wishing you guys a good day ahead.

Regards
Aman

[brd4790]

Hi, I like the quote. here are my thoughts (I'm an total novice, so these comments are from an art appreciation perspective):
The side bar that you've painted is visually distracting... I find myself staring at the bar and not the words. Maybe you'd want to change the composition here somehow to create a visual flow from the decorative side bar into the words.
Also, given that the quote is about oceans and water, I think the color choice is weird... I'd personally find this more beautiful if it had blues  / grays or somehow evoked the sense of being in the ocean or water.

[jeanwilson]

Because you already have a lot of skill and design sense, I think you are a candidate for serious study of design. You and I would probably point to the exact same things if we were to brainstorm ways to improve these layouts. Spotting the problems is not difficult. Figuring out the best fix requires some lessons - at least for most of us.

Frequently, people think they can just sit down and apply a layout to a quote. In my reading and classes on layout and design, it is suggested that you need to start with a pencil roughs and figure out how the words will fit into a pleasing layout. You spend quite a bit of time with pencil before you even pick up your pen and ink.

Sheila has three chapters on layout an design. They cover pretty much everything a person needs to know. Interestingly enough, most of the information is available through other sources on the internet. I do not have time right now to research and post links to design lessons. Maybe there are others who can suggest some good links.

The subject of design has come up before and it doesn't go very far. My fellow teachers and I have noted that many people are put-off or intimidated by the idea that you can learn design. It is not rocket science. There are elements and principles. If you work through the basic lessons of design, it is like riding a bike. You have tools that will serve you well for the rest of your life.

If you want to get serious about learning design, let me know. I do have a series of lessons of my own that I might be able to tailor to this format.

[Erica McPhee]

Jean is so right! Design is a skill that can be learned. Sadly, not many people take the time to do so. So I am glad you asked! There are a few good posts on design here at Flourish:

A short tutorial I created covering all the basics: Designs Tips for Calligraphers

A link to a nice blog post by Patricia Lovett:
Designing a Festive Piece

More posts on Design and Layout: Design/Layout Process

Hope that helps!

[Erica McPhee]

I'm sorry - I did not mention anything in particular about your lovely piece! I offer the following constructive feedback:

1. The quote is referencing the ocean - but your color scheme is red and green which are more earth tones.
2. I like the sidebar as a decorative element - however it is a bit too wide and as Brad said it distracts from your lovely lettering which is the main focus. It competes for the viewer's attention. This is a good opportunity to implement the Papa Bear, Mama Bear, Baby Bear concept. You want your viewer to first see your lettering (Papa Bear), then the side bar (Mama Bear).
3. In regard to the sidebar, since you are talking about the ocean, perhaps you could use the brush to mimic the shape of waves.
4. For visual interest - perhaps you could pick out one or two words from the quote to focus or enhance - either in a different style, larger, different color, or somehow different (this would become the mama bear and the sidebar the baby bear).

I hope that is helpful and I hope you give it another go. I'd love to see another variation. 

[schin]

Let the text influence the design... for example your quote is "Anger can rage till it tears you apart"... the important words could be Anger, Rage, Tears, Apart.. So let those have prominence in the design. Less important words can be smaller or less important. Then arrange everything so the eye follows the quote easily.

[AndyT]

Sheila [Waters] has three chapters on layout an design.

Here's one of them in pdf format, courtesy of the University of California, Santa Barbara:

Foundations of Calligraphy: Design and Layout, part 4

Whilst being aware of this sort of thing is undoubtedly a good thing, slavish following of "rules" is not, in my opinion.  As an antidote to formulaic thinking I can recommend pretty much any of the writings of Paul Klee, but in particular the notebooks.  Always feel free to experiment.

[jeanwilson]

Thank you for adding to the discussion.

None of us with formal training in design were taught that we should slavishly follow rules. Learning the elements and principles of design give people a vocabulary to discuss design and make decisions. Design lessons teach us to edit and make decisions. Experimenting is a wonderful thing - but at certain point, you need to step back and access the situation. Running through the list of balance, contract, texture, and all the other words associated with design is a reliable way to identify and resolve what may be missing from the work or what might need editing.

The article by Sheila Waters is from Letter Arts Review. She wrote a series of articles for the magazine that were then compiled and edited into a book. If this article looks like a boring set of rules, it is because it is just a small portion of a bigger picture.

Most people who study design absorb the information and use it daily. It's like learning the scales in music, or the positions in ballet. Design is a framework that supports the imagination.

[AndyT]

Oh, did I speak out of turn?

[The.SardaarJi]

Hello @brd4790 ,

Good morning my friend.

Thanks for your suggestion and feedback and your time ) . You comments are feedbacks are precious to me .

I am glad you like the quote, it's from one of favorite #Sufi poet "Rumi". 

Thanks for your suggestion on the "Visual bar", yes it's seems distracting . Also I never give a thought about color choice according to the quote, thank's for a wonderful idea. I will keep in in the mind.

I will redo this quote again..

Thanks a lot bro and have a nice day.

Regards
aman

Hi, I like the quote. here are my thoughts (I'm an total novice, so these comments are from an art appreciation perspective):
The side bar that you've painted is visually distracting... I find myself staring at the bar and not the words. Maybe you'd want to change the composition here somehow to create a visual flow from the decorative side bar into the words.
Also, given that the quote is about oceans and water, I think the color choice is weird... I'd personally find this more beautiful if it had blues  / grays or somehow evoked the sense of being in the ocean or water.

[The.SardaarJi]

 Hello @jeanwilson

• Because you already have a lot of skill and design sense, I think you are a candidate for serious study of design. You and I would probably point to the exact same things if we were to brainstorm ways to improve these layouts. Spotting the problems is not difficult. Figuring out the best fix requires some lessons - at least for most of us. | Do I have these? Design Sense and Skills? , if you thinks Yes, then thanks a lot for your compliments. To be honest with you, I really want to write quotes in Design, I am not happy by writing quotes in just regular way, in line after line , I am happy to work with you on this, if you don't have any issues. 
• Frequently, people think they can just sit down and apply a layout to a quote. In my reading and classes on layout and design, it is suggested that you need to start with a pencil roughs and figure out how the words will fit into a pleasing layout. You spend quite a bit of time with pencil before you even pick up your pen and ink. | Not sure about other people, but it's a right for me, and I always do it, i just sit and start writing the quotes. I don't know why, but i have some problem while doing this, I will try to do it today on the same quotes and will see if i managed to do something right.
• Sheila has three chapters on layout an design. They cover pretty much everything a person needs to know. Interestingly enough, most of the information is available through other sources on the internet. I do not have time right now to research and post links to design lessons. Maybe there are others who can suggest some good links.Thanks I will try to find out about them over internet.Thanks for your time
• The subject of design has come up before and it doesn't go very far. My fellow teachers and I have noted that many people are put-off or intimidated by the idea that you can learn design. It is not rocket science. There are elements and principles. If you work through the basic lessons of design, it is like riding a bike. You have tools that will serve you well for the rest of your life. I think i need to find those lesson and I need to apply them , I  need to improve my Calligraphy overall and I believe Designing and Layout of text is the main part of it too .
• If you want to get serious about learning design, let me know. I do have a series of lessons of my own that I might be able to tailor to this format.Yes, I am quite serious about learning the design,,, thanks a lot for the help
  
  

Thanks a lot Jean for the help, I don't have enough words to show my gratitude.

Regards
Aman

Because you already have a lot of skill and design sense, I think you are a candidate for serious study of design. You and I would probably point to the exact same things if we were to brainstorm ways to improve these layouts. Spotting the problems is not difficult. Figuring out the best fix requires some lessons - at least for most of us.

Frequently, people think they can just sit down and apply a layout to a quote. In my reading and classes on layout and design, it is suggested that you need to start with a pencil roughs and figure out how the words will fit into a pleasing layout. You spend quite a bit of time with pencil before you even pick up your pen and ink.

Sheila has three chapters on layout an design. They cover pretty much everything a person needs to know. Interestingly enough, most of the information is available through other sources on the internet. I do not have time right now to research and post links to design lessons. Maybe there are others who can suggest some good links.

The subject of design has come up before and it doesn't go very far. My fellow teachers and I have noted that many people are put-off or intimidated by the idea that you can learn design. It is not rocket science. There are elements and principles. If you work through the basic lessons of design, it is like riding a bike. You have tools that will serve you well for the rest of your life.

If you want to get serious about learning design, let me know. I do have a series of lessons of my own that I might be able to tailor to this format.

[The.SardaarJi]

Hello @Erica McPhee

Good afternoon,

Thanks for your reply and links, they are really helpful and I have downloaded the Calligraohydesign.pdf file .

I need to learn design skill, i am already doing Calligraphy from past 2 years ( though it's not good), but in this year 2017 I want to improve it as much as I can.

Thanks a lot for your time and reply.

Have a nice day.

Regards
Aman

Jean is so right! Design is a skill that can be learned. Sadly, not many people take the time to do so. So I am glad you asked! There are a few good posts on design here at Flourish:

A short tutorial I created covering all the basics: Designs Tips for Calligraphers

A link to a nice blog post by Patricia Lovett:
Designing a Festive Piece

More posts on Design and Layout: Design/Layout Process

Hope that helps!

[The.SardaarJi]

Hello @Erica McPhee  ,

Thanks again ,, Kindly see my replies in blue ..

I'm sorry - I did not mention anything in particular about your lovely piece! I offer the following constructive feedback: | Please, you are taking your time to review everyone's work and then replying them, please don't say Sorry... . I am glad that you said it Lovely

1. The quote is referencing the ocean - but your color scheme is red and green which are more earth tones.  | Thanks, I will try to use colours those are matching the *theme* of the quote or will use plain back.

2. I like the sidebar as a decorative element - however it is a bit too wide and as Brad said it distracts from your lovely lettering which is the main focus. It competes for the viewer's attention. This is a good opportunity to implement the Papa Bear, Mama Bear, Baby Bear concept. You want your viewer to first see your lettering (Papa Bear), then the side bar (Mama Bear). | Thanks for the Suggestion,I never heard the *Bear Family* concept, thanks a lot for teaching me this, I will keep it in my mind. 

3. In regard to the sidebar, since you are talking about the ocean, perhaps you could use the brush to mimic the shape of waves. | I am really terrible in ARTS and Drawing... if i try to make waves , I bet they might come out as rectangles , that's i don't use that elements much, but i will give in a another try in the next version of quote.

4. For visual interest - perhaps you could pick out one or two words from the quote to focus or enhance - either in a different style, larger, different color, or somehow different (this would become the mama bear and the sidebar the baby bear). Thanks for the suggestion, that's where the first problem comes back, design and layout, and I am pretty bad in that, Please check the attached images, I have tried this same format and somehow they were not looking much good. . when I think about adding variation

I hope that is helpful and I hope you give it another go. I'd love to see another variation.  YES, I am going to write another Version 2 of the same quote and will bother you all soon

Thanks a lot for your help Erica .

Regards
Aman

I'm sorry - I did not mention anything in particular about your lovely piece! I offer the following constructive feedback:

1. The quote is referencing the ocean - but your color scheme is red and green which are more earth tones.
2. I like the sidebar as a decorative element - however it is a bit too wide and as Brad said it distracts from your lovely lettering which is the main focus. It competes for the viewer's attention. This is a good opportunity to implement the Papa Bear, Mama Bear, Baby Bear concept. You want your viewer to first see your lettering (Papa Bear), then the side bar (Mama Bear).
3. In regard to the sidebar, since you are talking about the ocean, perhaps you could use the brush to mimic the shape of waves.
4. For visual interest - perhaps you could pick out one or two words from the quote to focus or enhance - either in a different style, larger, different color, or somehow different (this would become the mama bear and the sidebar the baby bear).



I hope that is helpful and I hope you give it another go. I'd love to see another variation. 

[The.SardaarJi]

Dear @schin  ,

Good afternoon.

Thanks a lot for the reply.

Thanks for the suggestions, I will keep these suggestions in the mind. Also as an example ( just to clear my doubt), if i need to highlight the important work like *Anger* i should either write it with some other color, or write it with an 3mm nib in-case i am writing the rest of quote with 2mm.

Thanks a again.

With Regards
Aman

Let the text influence the design... for example your quote is "Anger can rage till it tears you apart"... the important words could be Anger, Rage, Tears, Apart.. So let those have prominence in the design. Less important words can be smaller or less important. Then arrange everything so the eye follows the quote easily.

[The.SardaarJi]

Hello @AndyT

Good afternoon , thanks for the link dear, and i have downloaded the pdf.,,

Thanks for let me know about the Paul Klee, I will try to search his work . also may be once I will get pretty good with layouts may be some day i wll break some rules too

Have a nice day.

Regards
Aman

Sheila [Waters] has three chapters on layout an design.

Here's one of them in pdf format, courtesy of the University of California, Santa Barbara:

Foundations of Calligraphy: Design and Layout, part 4

Whilst being aware of this sort of thing is undoubtedly a good thing, slavish following of "rules" is not, in my opinion.  As an antidote to formulaic thinking I can recommend pretty much any of the writings of Paul Klee, but in particular the notebooks.  Always feel free to experiment.