Square cutoff.

[Chris]

Hi!

I was wondering if the square cutoff is absolutely mandatory in Copperplate... (I've seen many beautiful examples wihout the square cutoffs.)

Thanks!

Chris.

[YokePenCo]

If you are wanting Traditional Engrosser's Script (copperplate) then the chisels are essential. Chisel is the proper term for making the stems as well as the necessary ascenders and descenders square at the top and bottom respectively. Many modern pointed pen scripts are not square and if you are wanting modern or your own version of it then there are no rules in my opinion.

If you are wanting a tip on make them square, when you start you pause and put downward pressure on the nib with a slight angle of the nib being on the paper more on the left tine. This forces the right tine to push out and create an upper chisel. For a lower chisel you simply make a very small movement to the left as your end the bottom of the stem or descender. The lower chisel is easier to learn and I spent quite a bit of time creating just straight lines at the 52 degree angle in order to practice the chisels.

[Brad franklin]

Also to note there is no absolute rule that you have to get right the first time. You can go back and retouch the letter as Dr. V says its about presentation not speed, or something like that. I have seen plenty masters go back and touch up their work.

[YokePenCo]

Yes absolutely correct Brad, I was just coming back to the computer to add that. Many of the greats did touchup and it is completely acceptable.

Also a historical note, the old timers such as those at the Zanerian and before would always look at the chisels and comment on how well they were executed before looking at anything else in Engrossers or Spencerian.

[Chris]

Thanks for your replies! They are most appreciated! 

[Brad franklin]

I guess its not so good to be square.  But when it comes to copperplate its great.

[Erica McPhee]

Also a historical note, the old timers such as those at the Zanerian and before would always look at the chisels and comment on how well they were executed before looking at anything else in Engrossers or Spencerian.

Fascinating! Thank you for sharing with us! 

[Chris]

Hi again!

Now I'm wondering... I've been practicing a lot with the Speedball oblique pen, and I just don't understand how to make chisels straight with the header/baseline when the pen is at an angle of ~45°-55° (figure C). When I do that, the chisels have a ~45°-55° angle because of the initial pen angle (please see my example below). So in order to make the chisel straight, I put the pen perpendicular to the slant angle, but that makes a ragged edge on the right side of the shade (figure B)!

Please see the image below... I drew red lines on Dr. Vitolo's image to try to show what I mean:

[This image removed for copyright & forum rule violation.]

Here is my example:



Thanks again!

[YokePenCo]

It's simply a matter of turning the paper a little more or re-examining your hand position. The nib needs to be angled as in figure C.

I am asked many times to create a custom angle for a customer for this very reason. They like their hand position and also the paper position. I make the nib angle steeper or shallower to allow for their writing style. But above is the cheaper and easier method.

[YokePenCo]

Also to get the square edge and the bottom of the letter N, you release pressure on the nib and make a slight movement to the left. The other option is to touch up the letter after it is done.

[Erica McPhee]

Hi Chris,
I was going to say what Christopher said - try turning your paper more. I turn my paper a great deal.

You also may want to view this tutorial: Square your Tops and Bottoms. You can see what Christopher is referring to about the tine moving over to meet the left side.

Keep in mind, since many are intimidated learning copperplate, these tutorials are meant to make copperplate accessible to beginners so the strokes you will see are much looser and not as "finished" as say what you would see in Dr. Vitolo's videos on IAMPETH. My intention has been to introduce people gradually and then once comfortable, go back and work on becoming more precise. But hopefully, the video gives a general idea of how to get the stroke down.

Also, even though the lettering in the video is head on, my paper is actually tilted very much to the left. I will try on my next video (which will be about fine tuning) to do a pulled back shot to show this.

I hope that helps!

[YokePenCo]

I really need to look at the video's. I had no idea you did a tutorial, wonderful. Anyone know how to get like 5 more hours in each day? lol

[AndyT]

Anyone know how to get like 5 more hours in each day?

Sadly I suspect that it wouldn't help, on account of Parkinson's Law.

[Chris]

Thanks again Erica and Christopher! Your answers are much appreciated.

But my point is that when the pen is angled like in figure C, it is physically impossible (well, for me here, anyway!) to make a straight chisel aligned to the header/baseline because the tip of the pen is at an angle to the header/baseline!

When the pen is positioned like in figure C, the chisel is straight, yes, but at an angle. You can see that effect in this screenshot:



I put angled red lines in this Dr. Vitolo image to help demonstrate my point:

[This image removed for copyright and forum rule violation.]

So in order to make straight chisels, seems to me I have 2 options: 1) I do like figure C, which makes angled chisels, and then touch up the letters later, or 2) I do like figure B, which makes straight chisels, but also a ragged edge on the right side of the shade.

?

[YokePenCo]

Let me see if with my limited video experience I can video the movement closely this weekend. I will see what I can do.